planes like the F4C suffer due to lack of countermeasures even though they had a pylon mounted ECM pod. why don’t we have this in game yet?
it requires some quite significant new bits of code to be modeled. I think they are working towards that point. Radar improvements that came with ARH and the RWR overhaul not that long ago are definetly steps in the right direction for it though. (we even got a datamined loadout icon that could possibly be for ECM a few months ago)
I suspect we may see ECM sometime next year. But dont consider it a magic bullet that will make you immune to SARH or ARH missiles. I strongly doubt they will be anywhere near that effective (nor were they IRL)
2 Likes
Could you share? İf you can find it
(nearly a year ago, damn time move fast)
1 Like
Not really, the AN/AAQ-8 for example would be currently implementable since the Su-25T and variants of it have the IR Jammer. The hard part is probably proving that the F-4C specifically could carry it(image is probably of an F-4D, though at the time the Unit in question also operated the F-4C, doesn’t help that it shares an external shape and forward features with some jamming pods of the era and so unless photographed from behind to see the emitters is otherwise indistinguishable).
1 Like
The problem with ECM is that the disadvantage they have in real situations disappears in the game.
When a plane activates its ECM, it makes it “more visible” to the enemy: the jammer accentuates the presence of targets in the area but makes sure that the enemy radar does not know which is the right target. In the game the appearance of false radar spots will have no interest because we see the name tag of the enemies
Normally pilots only activate their ECM when they are threatened by hostile radar or when they enter an immediate danger zone in order to remain as stealthy as possible. However, in-game stealth is not the most important factor, so all players will have their ECM activated at all times.
ECM pods would only be usable at 100% of their functionality in simulator mode
Jammer != ECM, DECM also encompasses Track Breaking, and deception methods
ECM pods would effectively reduce the effective range of the Threat radar / system, and depending on if Track Breaking or Home On Jam techniques were additionally implemented, some range could be recovered by sufficiently advanced systems.
The main impact would be the reduction of the effective engagement range somewhat (easily abstracted by using known energy profiles of the various emitter / jammers and the radar range equation with some required Signal to noise ratio to solve for received power, in order to simulate Burn Though ) of (S)ARHs, and make low dwell time radar modes like TWS / RWS unusable though this is less of an issue in War Thunder would still reduce capabilities of a fighter to find a target which helps provide tike for Strike aircraft to get in and do their job, unless the interceptor were to commit, which puts them out of position to respond to a potential allied fighter sweep.
(Sorry I’m using a translator) I was thinking about ECM
So we’re back to the old War Thunder where it’s just dogfighting?
Not quite that far. What you would see at top tier would probably be fairly similar to the existing capabilities around 9.0~11.0 BR Bracket, and depending on how far it propagates, and what capabilities and abstractions are employed SARH missiles make become dead weight against specific targets which would allow them more tactical freedom to approach their objectives
IR missiles would still exist,
and Radar missiles would still work within say ACM ranges (I’d have to run some numbers to get exact ranges, and it also doesn’t account for any sort of scaling that Gaijin used to make ECM more or less effective than it would be).
Its more so that aircraft like the F-14 would actually have to close the distance instead of being able to reliably sit at altitude and guide a number of AIM-54s at 40~60 km at various different targets simultaneously, they could only chose one that may not update its projected point of interception so be far less of a threat with even basic avoidant maneuvering being incidentally performed with existing tactics and procedures.
Though capability would be somewhat restored when compared against closer targets since the AWG-9 is very powerful (Peak power is something like 1400VA (Volt Amps), vs ~900VA for the APQ-120)
Most radars also emit more useful power than bolt on Jammers (Non mechanically scanned / AESA radars would also suffer from additional losses as their angular offset between their boresight and the target increases due to the necessary phase delay for the electronic beam sharpening to create a beam with the required angle, on top of further reduced dwell time, not unlike TWS / RWS modes).
So they would have to employ STT (Single target track modes), against the jamming aircraft, and be inside radar burn though range to get the missiles off the rail in the first place which takes time and effort, making it harder to do safely and opens them up to being interrupted while closing the distance increasing survivability or or counter-attacked with an AIM-9L / R-73.
I’m still not sure if it will do any good to the game. Given the number of planes the radar will be completely unusable.
- some aircraft will need to have large Br changes as their ECMs will completely block radar shots(I remember an interview with a Mirage 2000C pilot who said that once the ECM was activated no one could lock anything, whether they were allies or enemies)
So what was the game like 6 months ago?
it did historically get ecm and would love to see it
but the f4c doesn’t face arh normally
isn’t that the exact f4E skin that’s in game?
The 2000C ?
Yes it had the SABRE system but this system was considered one of the best until the 80s-90s so I don’t want to know the effects it would have on the planes it faces (Mig-23 and F-4 radar will no longer be usable on the battlefield)
I was talking about the paint job lol :,)
1 Like
my bad
I would say that ECM should given to aircraft that have no countermeasures otherwise such as the f4c and maybe some other aircraft (cant think of them rn)
Why not, but the addition for all the planes would make the battles really chaotic.
Imagine if Gaijin added an E/A-18, the battlefield would just be a nonsense zone : )
I just thought of one example that has countermeasures that would make sense to get ecm- the f 111( but it would be complicated)
its certainly a feature IRL (pending the specific match-up of systems be compared), but will depend at least in game on how it is implemented, and with how Performance is used over introduction year, for balancing purposes things are quite likely to be simplified, to a point.
Almost, but not quite; as at short ranges the more recent missiles are still more deadly than what existed and without Multipathing there probably isn’t a hard counter.
I think its the same Scheme, but not aircraft as that image is (almost certainly) of an F-4D; as the Chin Antenna Blister and M117-BOLT (GBU-1, a 750lb LGB), very much narrow down to when and where the image was taken. and the Pattern was applied to most regular airframes of the 8th Tactical Fighter Wing as per the FP Tail Flash, the airframe in the original image belonged to the 497th TFS at the time it was taken.
F-4C:
F-4D:
B-57G:
