Playing air sim, you have to earn money in other mods to get to play sim. Why?! Sim the hardest mod in the game is rewarded the worst. Waiting 15mins for a small reward is just stupide. This is playable to 7th tier, but 7th and 8th is unplayable since the maps are small, and everything is fast. You can score even three kills and than get shot, but because the hole flyght took you 7mins you dont get even the joining cost of the plane.
And if you want to earn some sl, the only thing you need to do is, bombon the base and than wait on the airfield for the reward.
So the things that should be changed are:
normal rewards and maps
But maps are the hole other story.
4 Likes
Bad people ruined it for others by abusing it
6 Likes
Because of players like myself that look for ways to earn rewards.
In 2019 players like myself discovered a method of gaining rewards quickly. Ramming into enemy airfields with a bomber over and over again.
220,000 RP, 1,000,000 SL without boosters. I did it once to see it for myself personally.
A clear problem.
Not only did the 50:50 penalty get formed in reaction to this, but the 15 minute activity timer was also implemented to prevent this.
Today you should know the 50:50 penalty no longer exists and is instead a looser 80:20.
Welcome to hell :P
They made all sim players pay because of cheaters
2 Likes
It’s not abuse. Players always find ways to maximize reward.
Back in the old days the game allowed sim players to gain a lot of score early and avoid fighting (e.g. idle on airfield) in the rest of the match to gain huge amount of reward. At some time some of those grinding players start harassing other players who actively do objectives all the match cuz that cause tickets drain and hurt their grind.
Then Gaijin nerfed the old reward system to the current sh*t. Max rewards are capped at around 60k per hour and the most stupid thing… to reliably gain maximal reward you still need to keep safe (e g. circle around AF) after getting enough score, but not for the whole match, instead for the 15min UA cycle.
2 Likes
It’s not that hard to penalise only people who are truly abusing the gamemode. The method consists of constantly bombing/ramming the enemy airfield and spawning again and again? Come on Gaijin, I know a couple of things about programming and videogames, don’t tell me it is hard to implement a system that avoids that.
But no, Gaijin simply prefers the Gaijin way: reduce rewards, make it almost impossible to get any profits (a game lasting 1h will get you, on average, 30.000rp at most) and kick the sim playerbase out of the game, just like they already did with Ground sim.
1 Like
I dream of a day where Gaijin will take Sim players seriously and treat Sim gamemodes just like they treat Realistic Battles. But let’s be honest, the game has been around since 2013. Gaijin does the bare minimum to keep players happy and they only listen when the company’s integrity is in danger, as it has been proven.
We will have to play Sim as it is, at its current state. A true sh*t reward system on a gamemode that needs A LOT of attention and healing. Hopefully they’ll prove me wrong, but I know for a fact that they won’t. We are probably closer to delete Sim battles from the game than we are to adressing its issues.
2 Likes
Yes, they didn’t really change much and we actually pretty much do have the system used in other modes. Your rewards are based on:
Points x Time of life
Where Points are capped and are subject to greatly diminishing returns, while Time of life seems linear, but resets after 15 minutes. Time also resets on death (obviously) and when you change loadout at the airfield (or ‘J-out’ for any reason).
Previously you didn’t earn much more after the first 3-4k points, the main benefit from doing more was the extra time it took and what you did didn’t really matter. Some people took that to its logical conclusion and did bugger-all. In fact doing nothing was even better than doing something, because the game would likely last longer if objectives weren’t completed!
Now the system is pretty much identical, but applies over each ‘life’ up to 15 minutes. Base bombing is so popular because it’s reliable (waiting for cap zones or bombers/attackers to shoot down can waste many 15-minute periods in each game) and it gives a high percentage of the max reward. Points per base varies with aircraft/loadout but seems from 450 to 550, and that generates about the best reward (5-6k RP w/prem a/c). If I get a base and a kill or maybe part of a cap or a couple ai bombers, I might get twice the points, but when the UA come in after 15 mins it’s a few hundred more RP. As a general rule the extra risk is not worth it. Even if all I can manage is a few seconds on a cap for the minimum of 200 pts, I’ll still come away with around 80% of the reward for destroying a base.
Therefore, don’t be the dick-head who knocks off 2-3 bases in succession; you don’t earn much more and you deny 1-2 players on your team the chance of useful UA - and you can be certain 80% of your team are looking to bomb bases. Obviously, at the end of a close game and you need the tickets to win, just kill anything and everything that drains tickets - just coz someone pings a base doesn’t mean it’s ‘theirs’ when you’re running in to kill it and every ticket counts. However, as a general rule, if I can paraphrase the great Ricky Gervais, ‘Just go out, get your little reward and ****-off back to the airfield.”
BTW, I’m not saying this is scintillating gameplay, but it is the game Gaijin have presented us with.
This was put on the old forum back in the day when these changes were introduced, but I can’t find the old forum so this is from reddit (I think they were the same):
TL;DR: We’ve complained collectively before and our feedback has fallen on deaf ears
Dear War Thunder Developers!
We, players of the War Thunder simulator mode (SB), who play mainly Enduring Confrontation mode, turn to you with what we consider to be currently the most critical matter related to this game mode.
Firstly we would like to thank you for all the effort you put into our gamemode, Enduring Confrontation, detailed cockpits, and VR support.
From our side, we try to show our appreciation to the game from it’s very beginning.
Not only do we play it, enjoy it and bring friends with us to play, but also those who can afford it are happy to spend their money to purchase premium accounts and vehicles.
The problem we now all see with Enduring Confrontation (EC) and reason behind this petition, is the current in-game economy. In a series of changes and especially as result of the latest economy updates, player’s progress through ranks has been slowed down to the point of making the game unplayable.
Currently even very good players with premium accounts and vehicles struggle sometimes to generate positive income of in-game currency - Silver Lions (SL). Because of the high skill level entry point of the air combat simulator genre, most less experienced players, who often have kill-to-death ratio (K/D) below one and who on average win 50% of their games, are constantly facing risk of monetary loss. Because of this, their progress in the game is stopped at a very early stage and they often get discouraged from playing.
We understand that the economic changes of the last 2-3 years were largely due to the struggle of developers with abusers and professional “farmers”, but we believe that countermeasures against violators should not deprive honest players of the opportunity to fly in your flight simulator.
In regard to the above, we urgently ask you to improve the economy of the Sim Enduring Confrontation to an acceptable state as soon as possible. This would allow the players to feel comfortable even when playing on the now very popular jet planes.
If those changes will not happen soon we sadly foresee substantial outflow of players from our game mode and game altogether. Many left already, but every day more and more people are considering this move. Some will leave as a sign of protest but most will leave out of frustration of not being able to progress in a game they like even despite having a premium account.
Sincerely,
Pilots of the simulator community of War Thunder
3 Likes
Yea, it’s an issue that has been hot for years and generates a new thread every couple weeks or so.
For anyone who hasn’t worked out how landing bonus works (or anyone who didn’t even know there was such a thing), you should be aware that there is a 20% RP(SL) bonus when you land… but it’s not quite that simple (of course not; it’s Gaijoob).
So, you fly around and ‘do’ something to earn a few points, then you land for your 20% bonus, right? No, because your reward (reward being RP/SL) doesn’t just depend on the points you scored; mostly it depends on how long you were alive before getting the points and how long you live afterwards, up to 15 mins max. Should you die or J-out on the airfield for any reason the timer stops - you do get a reward, but it won’t show on screen and will be less than you’d earn after 15 mins. If you reach the 15-min point you’ll get the on-screen UA reward notification (but it doesn’t linger long and is easy to miss, eg if you’re looking at scores/map). Once the UA reward appears your next landing will generate a 20% bonus, which also appears on-screen as you slow down on the runway and the canopy opens.
Say you land several minutes after a UA notification and take your bonus; you don’t J-out, but simply go through repair/rearm/refuel; this means you’re already well into the next UA cycle. You get airborne again, get some points and get the next UA notification 15 mins after the last one, but still have plenty of fuel, bombs, ammo etc, so continue flying; it’s your lucky day and you earn more points and live to the next 15 min UA notification. This time you RTB and land. Even though you received 2 UA rewards in the same sortie, the landing bonus which appears on-screen will just be 20% of the last UA reward - the bonus from the first UA cycle appears to be lost in the ether. Maybe it isn’t and will appear in the total at mission end, but I don’t trust Gaijin, so always attempt to land asap after a UA reward notification.
Putting all that together, to maximise rewards:
- Spawn and note the time - timer starts
eitheron spawnor maybe first take off.(Confirmed it’s spawn) - Have a plan to ‘do something.’ Large maps are good for jets because 15 mins is usually enough for out-and-back (even with unpredictable, indirect out route) to most targets.
- Do your ‘something’ and head home.
- Collect UA reward at 15 mins, ideally as you approach base or, if you judge it to perfection, as you’re rolling down the runway. If you need to fly a circuit or two, so be it, you’re still collecting rewards with each minute even if you’re not gaining points.
- Land and collect bonus as you come to a halt.
- Note the next 15-min UA cycle started when you were notified on-screen not when you next take-off, assuming you just repaired/rearmed/refuelled and didn’t J-out, so you’ll have something less than 15 mins remaining in the current UA cycle.
If you plan and fit your flying to that 15-min UA cycle - and survive most sorties - the rewards in sim are not bad. If you already knew that, well done, but it seems many players struggle to earn decent rewards, so an explanation might be useful.
The system works well for jet strike aircraft which can neatly fit destroying a single base into a 15-min window (reduce loadout to the min required for one base, as the points multiplier is greater). It’s not so good for pure fighters who can’t guarantee getting a cap zone or finding targets in every 15-min cycle. Jet bombers which can carry tons of bombs can either carry a limited loadout for just one base or can carry a full load to dump on an airfield, which is also roughly a 15-min round-trip. WW2 heavy bombers which need 15 mins just to get to height, can either go low level against bases or must write off the first UA cycle just to get above airfield flak… the system doesn’t work so well for them.
2 Likes
That’s probably Gaijin’s current plan.
Bots and grinders are a nuisance for Gaijin, but they feel that it’s no longer worth taking active measures against SB, which has a small player population in the first place.
From a business perspective, they would like to immediately stop offering modes that don’t generate profits, but at the moment, it’s not that easy because there are still people like us who play the game just for SB, even if it’s a very small percentage.
In other words, for Gaijin, the current SB player population is a nuisance because it’s “not large enough to require manpower, but not small enough to ignore the storm of criticism that will come from the service being terminated.”
So their solution was to intentionally lower the quality of the service and leave it alone. They can wait until we get disgruntled and leave the game, and there are no players left who want the original SB, and then they can quietly terminate the service.
That way, they can remove this mode that causes problems and doesn’t bring profits without criticism.
I think that’s probably Gaijin’s true intention.
You may say that this is an unfounded accusation, but I will not change my opinion until Gaijin proves it with their actions. Of course, it is true that there are many aspects on various issues that make me sympathize with Gaijin, but overall it is inevitable that people think this way.
In fact, my remaining comrades, my old comrades who went to DCS/IL-2, and the people around me all talk about this theory as a matter of course.
3 Likes