New AAs like the Tan-SAM Kai would be an effective counter to radar guided AGMs due to the Mad Dog mode so now would be the perfect time to add AGM-114Ls. Hope gaijin considers it soon
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MMW has never been needed.
I get you want BR 13.3+ helicopters and Tornado GR4, but this isn’t the time.
@ThiccoIai
No, 13.3+ BR helicopters aren’t needed yet.
Stop demanding OP CAS just because SPAA is balanced. We just ended the 3 year streak of CAS being entirely OP in ground RB.
Again… The moment they added FnF helis to the game. it has been needed, as multiple nations ONLY used MMW for FnF on their helis. It would be like if they added Fox-3s to some nations but not all nations. because they would be too strong. But that isnt what they did, they nerfed PL-12 and AAM-4 down to Aim-120B performance so all could be added together.
I cannot justify the Tornado Gr4 being higher than 11.7 at the moment in GRB. Why you think 15km range FnF weapons would make it 13.3 when we have 40km range FnF weapons at 12.7/13.0 including those with effective multirole capability and far more capable platforms is beyond me.
Just like every single none-soviet weapon in game. it would of course be artificially nerfed and probably limited to 6 anyway in some form.
But you cannot really beleive that SAL-Hellfires are a usable weapon system above 10.7
Except for the fact that there are two nations in the game that can effectively counter all the new top tier spaa making them viable in top tier.
What about the rest? It’s funny because they easily could’ve added a better variant of the hellfire or the AGM-169 (has a tri-seeker) which could’ve at least helped out the US.
But hey, I guess wasting time on implementing a unique MFD for the Ka52 takes priority over buffing helicopters that desperately need it.
There are zero 40km F&F radar weapons in War Thunder at this time.
There is not even one IR tracking weapon that exceeds 14km against tank sized targets.
LOAL doesn’t even exist in-game currently outside of a surface-air weapon.
Stop making false-equivalence fallacies. Radar is not IR, so stop implying they are the same.
And if you don’t want Tornado to be 13.3 or higher, I’d stop demanding undefeatable weapons on it cause I for one want to actually enjoy this period of no OP CAS and am sick the arguments to nerf the new SPAA into the ground just because things are finally balanced for the first time since 2022.
Also AAM-4 and PL-12 are not nerfed, that’s not a thing.
AAM-4 is one of the best AMRAAMs in the game currently.
@HondaCivici
There are zero tech trees that can counter top SPAA unless you mean GPS weapons which almost all if not all tech trees have.
No, I’m referring to the DIRCM found on the Mi28 and the Chinese Z-10ME.
Okay. Yeah, their IRCM was remodeled and they perform the same as they did since it was introduced to the Mi-28 in or before 2023.
Still doesn’t make them usable options when all but the IR SPAA is up, but the IR SPAA has always been defeated by their IRCM historically.
Either way I continue to endorse the AH-64E because it’s balanced.
I’m not going to demand new CAS weapons that powercreeps CAS beyond that of the new SPAA the same year that SPAA releases when we’ve been waiting since 2022 for good SPAA.
I have at least a little empathy for the ground playerbase that has issues involving CAS targeting them; especially since I got all the bully tanks behavior out of my system in all of 2023 and a substantial amount of 2024.
Do you understand my concerns?
My view isn’t selfish, it’s not that I dislike the weapons; I just want balance to exist for the rest of this year.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask for.
Next year? Sure, more powercreep in terms of CAS, especially as new SPAA systems get added.
That’s how I see it.
KH-38MT and AASM can be used at ranges that exceed the maximum kinetic range of the Brimstone 1 or AGM-65 by more than double. We have videos of KH-38MTs getting kills at these ranges.
Again, it has been proven that KH-38MT will lock onto a target that was either previously obscured by smoek or that was within range with a point-lock/GPS lock. This is LOAL
Please stop ignoring what i am saying.
IR is FnF
MMW is FnF
SAL is NOT FnF
If MMW cannot be added because “Reasons” then MMW should be made into IR. Simple.
I know you want some nations to suffer. But natiosn without FnF AGMs for fixed wings and helis are unplayable in the current meta. Especially with the new SAMs. FnF for all is needed and the ONLY way to add FnF to all is MMW.
It would be 12.3 at most with 6x MMW [Mode 2] Brimstone 1s. I have no idea why you are giving it 18x MMW [Mode 3] Brimstone 3s and ASRAAMs and ALARM
Otherwise the SU-30SM, Su-34 and SU-25SM3 should be 15.0 if Tornado Gr4 with 6x FnF Brimstone 1s is 13.3.
You mean like KH-38MT?
Also, why are they undefeatable? So removing FnF from an FnF wepaon is perfectly acceptable. Giving the Typhoon Brimstone 1s even though they only ever used Brimstone 2s and 3s is perfectly acceptable but making it so that MMW is LOBL (which it has IRL) or making it so that smoke blocks it (which would be ahistorical, even the smoke/chaff doesnt work) is totally unnacceptable?
Because there are LOADS of other weapon types they artificially nerfed for gameplay reasons. Like AJ168s. Total work of fiction their guidance method. Aim-9Ls, should not be 1 tap flare defeat. Aim-9Ms should be basically unflarable period.
Im fed up of "Oh, dont suffer soviets, we’ll give you a MASSIVE buff. Here take this paper weapon that never existed and that is so OP that nothing can do anything about it. Still not good enough? Oh well, let us buff it for you. "
“Typhoon you want Brimstones 2s? That you actually used? HAHAHA, no, you arent suppose to be good. here take these GPS glide bombs you never used instead, but you cant use them because we just ahistorically nerfed all GPS guided weapons to have massive drift”
Still frick all you can do if Germany and Soviets are paired together. KH-38MT is currently only being countered by the IRIS-T SLM and you cannot use CAP because IRIS-T SLM and Pantsir outpower any CAS or CAP any other nation can bring. Britain and Italy still do not have a 11.0+ SAM system.
And thats just for the nations that have a 11.0+ MBT or IFV to use. Most dont have anything competitive at the moment
They are both AIM-120C5 level weapons. MICA too technically. Should have better range, Though Aim-120B and Aim-120C5 are also both aritifically nerfed.
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There are multiple weapons in the game that are supposed to have LOAL but don’t so its reasonable to ask for MMW missiles on a 12.3 heli without LOAL capability
Gaijin can and has left out real life features for the sake of balance
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Source: Hellfire-Longbow AGM-114L anti-tank missile system | Missilery.info
In 1992 the U.S. Army decided to develop a derivative of the AGM-114K with a new mm-wave (MMW) active radar seeker for use with the AN/APG-78 Longbow radar of the AH-64D. This new missile is known as "Longbow Hellfire " and designated AGM-114L . For short-range or moving targets, the AGM-114L’s MMW seeker is locked on the target before launch using data from either the AN/APG-78 or the AH-64D’s TADS (Target Acquisition & Designation Sight). For long-range shots at static targets, the missile is launched in the direction of the target and controlled by its inertial system until the MMW seeker locks on for terminal guidance. Firing tests of the AGM-114L began in 1994, production was authorized in 1995, and the first missiles entered service in 1998.
You right, it didn’t change and that’s exactly why it’s a problem. There needs to be more parameters on what type of missiles it can defend from. But as of right now it’s able to defeat missiles that it shouldn’t.
It’s absolutely viable now. I brought in the Mi-28 yesterday was able to rain down hell. IR agms, missiles and ARH weren’t able to shoot me down. It only took someone bringing in their Flakrad to take me out.
I think you need to realize is that no one is against you advocating for the Guardian. They are against you because you haven’t provided a stop-gap measure for struggling helicopters. It’s been years since nations with Apaches got a reasonable buff. They are one of the worst helis in game. Saying to wait for the Guardian doesn’t cut it because it’ll probably take another year or two.
Saying that you want balance when the Apache is at it’s worst state is contradicting. There needs to be a buff asap.
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Heck. Weapon systems like AJ168 on the Buc S2B are not EO/TV guided like they are in-game. The current implementation is a total work of ficiton
and yeah, Take Brimstone for example.
Limited to Mode 1 perfectly acceptable.
But Limited to only mode 2 and not mode 3 is apparently unacceptable?
The double standards are driving me nuts and im sure its the same for the Hellfire. Im 95% sure they have a LOBL mode of operation that is similar.
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All longbows except the AH Mk1 Longbow Apache (in my opinion) are currently in a VERY sad state, Why? virtually every other helicopter can outclass it, Better Anti air missiles (TY90’s, 9L/M’s)
Apache’s do boast a 8KM range hellfire, however why use that, when the Vikhr goes around the same range but its much faster. Or just take the Eurocopter and AH-60 (Israel) having PARs LR/PARS 3 which are FnF. Meanwhile for the apache’s, have to wait a prolonged amount of time for it to hit the target which might already be dead or you might be dead due to an AA firing at you
Yeah Teapache was added 5 years ago. It has only gotten nerfs since then. I have never had a succesful game in it because i’ve always been spawn killed by a Pantsir or nearly any other SPAA that was already in game. I have no idea what I would be suppose to do against something like an IRIS-T SLM.
At this rate. Teapache should be 10.7/11.0 and then it might be usable.
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Why only the Teapache?
The Starstreaks are still a buggy mess and still require you to get within 5-6km of the target before using them. They have also been given a stupidly high SP cost.
After that, they are no different to any other non-DIRCM apache. Like the AHS in Sweden is probably stornger than the Teapache and its 11.7 vs the Teapache at 12.0
Mainly just the Star streaks is why I said its more better
Eh… under niche situations, they can be useful, but where most apaches should be 10.7 at the moment. Id maybe place it at 11.0 because that. Certainly doesnt deserve to be 12.0.
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the AH-64E will only be for what? 1 nation? how many nation’s currently operate it?
if they recieved 114L’s i’d say it’s worth being 12.0 as it has something making it worth being said BR. Else better to revert the longbows back to their old BR’s (11.7 and 11.3(DJP))
US and UK.
but I have no idea about any others at the moment.
US could get Spikes, but in the past they have denied Britain weapons because of like for like platforms wasnt enough and it had to be in the UK’s arsenal of weapons or tested on their specific airframes.
Which means we are back to JAGM which are MMW or Brimstones which are MMW
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