Why does spalling not ricochet off the inside of a tank?

Cool so you have compared like 3 out of like 300 data points, lol. With no reason to believe that you are anything close to an average player across each of these nations (almost impossible depending on the nations)

if its so manipulated they should differ greatly

  • Nobody said “manipulated”. I said “ridiculously skewed sample population and dozens of bugs”

  • You have no reason to believe that your numbers are the true total numbers in the first place, so why does it even matter that they match yours…? Yours can just ALSO be wrong. In fact, it’s quite likely, you are a player with 17,000 battles, you are way more of a sweatlord probably than a normal player. So your numebrs matching thunderskill’s when one of thunderskill’s huge problems is that it’s almost all sweatlords… makes pretty good sense, yeah? Yours = theirs, and neither of you = normal reality.

  • The entire problem with BOTH skewed populations AND bugs is precisely that they are not evenly distributed, and sometimes things can look fine but then randomly they can be completely wrong, without warning.

thhow is Gaijin lying??? Never have I said that

Gaijin has made very clear that they base BR based on vehicles performing similarly in game to other ones at the same BR. By claiming that win rates are actually 80% for one nation, you are calling them liars, since if they were telling the truth about that, that would not be possible. Everything would be near 50%.

I didn’t even say they WEREN’T lying, necessarily, meanwhile. I just asked why they ever would want to?

Gaijin never said wr% was 50% tho so I didnt call them liars or show me data to even be a lie involved…you saying im calling them liars is just you saying stuff…when they give me stats I can then call them liars if I so chose too untill then I cant…I just would like to see stats is all that are not manipulated but there are none I guess

Yes they did, they guaranteed that indirectly by saying many many many times that they balance things based on similar performance to other vehicles at the BR.

“Perform similarly to other vehicles at the BR” is only synonymous with 50% win rates, 1:1 KDs, etc. Plus or minus a tiny amount sure like 47% vs 53%, okay, but not 80%.

Nobody in their right mind would ever refer to 80% vs 20% as “performing similarly”

I just would like to see stats is all that are not manipulated but there are none I guess

Again, you ALREADY know based on their statements what the numbers would be that they would give you. It would be an entire heatmap of 47-53% yellow colors, that’s it.

Because anything else would not be “performing similarly versus other vehicles at their BR” and would be them calling themselves liars. So you’d never be given anything other than that. Even if they were liars, they wouldn’t admit it, lol. (not admitting you’re a liar is the definition of being a liar…)

You don’t need to see it, you already know what it would be.

Performance has nothing to do with wr’s or some of my low br vehicles would be adjusted to higher br’s , matching performance means Nascar style in that penetration performance armor and agility not wr%

If you really wanted to and had the time, you can. You can check any player’s stats on the website player search. Go through every player’s stats for a vehicle and average it out. Not easy work but it isnt hidden.

Their br changes are not 100% based on that because they also ask for suggestions, for better or worse.

Yea thats lotsa work but an honest suggestion thank you

Gaijin has been very clear that they are referring to performance as in game outcome performance as what they use for BRs. This has been clearly communicated for years and years. You can mean whatever you want, THEY mean win rates, KDs, score, etc. They do not use penetration and armor and things like that. They use who actually does well in matches (which therefore also includes avg players’ skills in the nation)

Your major complaint against modeling spalling / splash ricocheting increasing the lethality of a penetrating shot is that Russian tanks will be easier to knock out due to their fundamental design.

Your complaint hinges on the idea that War Thunder should be a perfectly balanced game, akin to an Esports title.

War Thunder is an asymmetrical game. You are not guaranteed a fair fight against the tank you engage, even if it is of your same battle rating.

If a Russian tank which is in service and is modernized to 2010 standards suffers against a tank designed in 1991 with no modernization then that is an unfortunate reality the player should surmount through tactical gameplay.

K game is perfectly balanced and the 94%wr russia has maintained againts me the last 3 days in 11.0+ ground (that is the actual number after 30 games ) is just an outlier…what was I ever thinking that they might have some set advantage…

Your complaint hinges on the idea that War Thunder should be a perfectly balanced game, akin to an Esports title.

Every PVP game in the world has to be balanced around 50% win rates to be fun and successful, everything from casual family board games to professional sports with millions in salaries, and everything in between.

The reason is quite simply that it’s NEITHER fun to beat up on someone with no effort, NOR is it fun to get curbstomped, NOR is it fun to observe other people playing if it’s not a close fight. It’s only fun to test yourself against a worthy adversary. And games only exist to be fun, so they must always balance toward 50% win rates.

Again, nothing “professional” about that. If you play your 5 year old niece in chess at Thanksgiving dinner in a few weeks, you would probably give her way more time to make her moves, or you would play her without your queen and without either of your rooks, etc., in order to make it more sporting. Also known as “Balancing toward 50% win rates”. Then you play against a pro basketball player later in the park. You will have him hold one arm behind his back and play against three guys on your team, to make it interesting. Also known as “Balancing toward 50% win rates”. Exactly the same thing here.

Gaijin doesn’t release the win rates of any nation publicly we have no understanding of their balancing other than historical placement and general player feedback.

They have said probably HUNDREDS of times that they balance based on in game performance of people using the vehicle in matches. I used to have a whole notepad file of links to examples, but they nuked their old forum, and none of them worked anymore. But they would go ON and ON about this every single time there was a thread about BR adjustments.

Frankly anyone with 13,000 battles was there when they were doing that and you’re being either dishonest or completely clueless about your surroudnings if you are pretending you weren’t.

There is a law in russia that dosent allow misrepresenting vehicles and they are the ones who decide what that means…as far as I know people in russia can play this game

Yes gaijin has publicly stated they use vehicle performance for balance. There is absolutely zero transparency for this process and the only judgement we have is the expected general historical performance of the vehicle and player feedback after the addition of said vehicle.

I can not provide justifications for balance which uses hidden values.

What POSSIBLE “transparency” COULD there be beyond this itself?

Gaijin’s headquarters is in Budapest, Hungary. Russian vehicles aren’t overpowered because of propaganda reasons Russian vehicles are overpowered because Gaijin has failed as a developer to fully implement necessary and important simulation in damage mechanics. One of those specific mechanics is the title of my thread.

Penetrating shots cause ricocheting metal which harms crew. Currently a penetrating shot simply shotguns and all spalling is absorbed by the back of the tank. This is unrealistic and unnecessarily nerfs round performance.

Unless this system is modeled spall liners will not me able to be modeled without directly harming gameplay as penetrating shots will fail to knock out a significant number of crew.

Once spalling damage has been made to be as threatening as it is IRL then spall liners will be justified in their implementation.

I personally believe that the game will play better with both mechanics suggested fully realized offering a much more dynamic experience especially at top tier that heavily rewards well placed shots rather than the current neck game we are subjected to.

No, Russian vehicles are overpowered (which I agree they are), because if they weren’t, NATO tanks would roflstomp them, and the game would not be fun. Because again, games are never fun, if they don’t have roughly 50% win rates.

So in order to make their game fun, they only had 2 options:

  • A) Handicap NATO tanks until they performed like Russian tanks, so that they can fight each other in matches and have ~50% win rates and thus the matches be fun. Which is what they chose. or

  • B) Make it so that NATO tanks only ever fight other NATO tanks at BR 13.0, while Russian tanks fight other Russian tanks at 11.7. This would also lead to 50% win rates and also be fun, but it’s not what anyone downloading the game expected the game to be, so people would complain that they weren’t getting what they expected. So it’s the worse option.

So they SUCCEEDED as a developer, actually, by choosing the clearly better of the only two possible options available to them.

Providing the full win rates of any vehicle for all players to view.