Providing the full win rates of any vehicle for all players to view.
How would that add any transparency? You’re acting as if numbers cannot possibly be lies, or something, lol?
If you thought someone was lying on Tuesday, and then on Wednesday, they give you a whole spreadsheet of numbers you cannot verify other than taking their word for it, then obviously you’re ALSO going to claim that they lied about all the numbers.
So what would be the point?
Russian vehicles have worse mobility, worse round performance, worse gun depression, and worse CAS options than the US.
Their only advantage in game is caused by a failure of Gaijin to offer parity in the addition of new vehicles and by the specific choice of developers to not model spall liners but to model fuel tanks to absorb spall.
Neither of these decisions is by a specific design choice by Gaijin and your insistence that they are intentionally making Russian vehicles overperforming to “balance NATO vehicles” goes against the game’s reality.
By including the relevant data for balancing decisions players can judge said balancing decisions against the available data.
In context, I was obviously referring to “IN GAME”, and obviously implyign that NATO tanks are stronger in real life. Hence… “They handicapped NATO tanks until they were as good as Russian tanks”
By including the relevant data for balancing decisions players can judge said balancing decisions against the available data.
Roleplay it with me. Imagine that tomorrow, they say OK and they give you data that shows a win rate for every vehicle. The spreadhseet literally ends up not having ONE single vehicle on it with a number listed lwoer than 47%, or higher than 53%.
They say “okay there you go! That’s all the raw data.”
How do you react?
Both NATO and Russia uses spall liners.
There is no nation specific handicap Gaijin has implemented.
If everything in game is historical according to you, then what are you even complaining about in the first place then? What is not matching in game versus real life with spall liners that you even brought it up to begin with?
Hypotheticals are irrelevant. The present reality is that Gaijin has stated they base some level of vehicle balancing off of vehicle specific win rates but they do not publicly share this information.
Using personal assumptions on hidden data is pointless. All we as players can do is look at the historical reality of vehicles and their real vehicle performance base on mobility / fire power / protection / utility.
If a tank moves faster, has a better gun, has better armor, and has more utility than any other tank at its BR range, it should likely be increased in BR unless doing so is pointless as it is at the top of its bracket.
That spall is not modeled as to how it performs in real life.
Metal fragments flying around the inside of a tank will kill crew members. This ingame would increase the lethality of penetrating shots from solid kinetic projectiles and some chemical munitions if done correctly. This increase in lethality would then finally justify full implementation of spall liners as to how they perform in real life, to reduce the lethality of armor spall.
I believe that this will result in a more enjoyable game.
It’s NOT hypothetical though. What I described is literally the only possible data they could give you without openly declaring themselves to have been liars, which they obviously wouldn’t do.
So that IS, FACTUALLY, the data you would get, if they gave you data. So now that we’ve established it’s NOT a “hypothetical”, how would you react?
If a tank moves faster, has a better gun, has better armor, and has more utility than any other tank at its BR range, it should likely be increased in BR
You forgot driver skill
How would that affect the survivability of Russian top tier tanks?
How would that affect the survivability of NATO top tier tanks, relatively?
Yes this is why I argue against using player performance to balance vehicles in War Thunder at all.
Balance should solely be dictated on historical placement and the true ability of a vehicle. Its characteristics are deterministic and can be compared against other vehicles in the same BR range which Gaijin sets said vehicles in.
Both should be effected mostly the same as both use spall liners with the exception of vehicles which have less crew members may be more easily knocked out in one penetrating shot compared to those with more spaced crews and a higher crew count in general, this is already a factor in the game.
You do not know the actual win rates of vehicles as Gaijin does not publicly share this information.
Why? You MUST include driver skill, otherwise you cannot balance toward 50% win rates, which is the only kind of fun game. Driver skill affects win rates, so it is non-optional to include in balance.
Again, see my earlier example: You’re playing chess against your 5 year old niece. Or arm wrestling her, let’s say, instead. “Not taking into account player abilities or skill” = “I’m going to ignore that I’m 20x stronger than her, and slam my niece’s arm down as hard as I possibly can and probably launch her 2 feet into the air. Causing her to break down in tears and scream. At which point I will declare that my victory was great fun and ask for another match proudly”
Do you think you’re going to get invited back to Thanksgiving next year?
You do not know the actual win rates of vehicles as Gaijin does not publicly share this information.
I didn’t say I did. I said that’s the only possible data they could give WITHOUT CALLING THEMSELVES LIARS. Please read more carefully.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the actual win rates or not. It’s what they would 100% guaranteed give you regardless, because they aren’t going to call themselves liars. DUH.
War Thunder at present I find quite enjoyable and currently uses asymmetrical gameplay.
A true 50% win rate is impossible due to the BR system. The BR system allows vehicles to be balanced despite their historical placement. War Thunder’s balancing as it stands is good, but it could be better.
Publicly releasing win rates is a net positive as it allows players to offer suggestions with data to back up their ideas. This results in more positive changes for the game and a better game overall.
Keeping the playerbase in the dark only harms the true potential of the game.
I have no idea what you mean by this. You already agreed earlier that Gaijin states it is NOT asymmetrical, and that they claim everything is based on 50% win rates. Also known as symmetrical.
So you seem to have just made up the whole “asymmetrical” thing. War Thunder is currently very fun because it’s symmetrical.
The only logical suggestions they could give based on that data would be precisely the same suggestions that the algorithm already gives. So that doesn’t really make any sense. It’d be 100% redundant, at best. And at worst, players would interpret it poorly and make illogical suggestions based off of it, and just waste time and be annoying.
Your personal assumptions on win rates is irrelevant to the real data which is currently not publicly available.