I don’t remember the precise figures but something like 60% of communication between humans is gesture,body language ,tone of voice and facial expression.You have none of that in written text hence why so many arguments start.Bear that in mind.
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I really don’t get what side you’re on. You seem to be playing both sides of the argument. I don’t know if you’re making an excuse for why you’re allowed to be confusing or if you do see merits in both sides of the argument. So if meaning can’t be determined in someone’s statements, how can it be condemned as “toxic?” It would be up to the readers’ interpretation, no? So it’s a completely out of control system? This is a good thing? lol
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Each comment stands on it’s own merit.
I made my case about Chat in my first post and my last post (to you) underlines it.Talking by typing messages is s**t anyway you look at it and that is the reason why people who might normally get on spend time arguing over nothing and why there is confusion misinterpretation.
How many times did somebody tell you to calm down on this forum when you couldn’t be calmer? It is presumption based on what you wrote.Chat is useless turn it off :).You demand valuable conversation and in game communication get a headset.
That a good point! As a basic point you can expect that whatever you say to someone an adult should be able to got the emotional distance to step away from this. BUT we got so often emotional (including me) when there are certain points that trigger us. For example if I say “there is no reason to ODL” … hell breaks loose. But why? Because we all got our personal experiences and where our comfortzone ends. If I say you are dumb (just as an example) … it is not nice. Nobody knows if this is true. It is an assumption but the more often you hear that it will do something with you. And there the fight starts …
I hope you can follow … if not feel free to ask.
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And there the fight starts …
In a fighting game. There’s no problem here.
@BoveyBadBoy69 I like text chat. I have always liked text chat. Voice comms with random people is often very disturbing. They often have it on voice activation, so you pick up bodily functions and external conversations or dog yelling moments. It’s a lot easier to filter chat especially if it gets hidden by the UI very fast than it is to avert my ears. There is an in game setting to turn chat off? Then I don’t see why there are so many anti-chat people begging to have their way when others want the text chat to be more lively and functional.
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Do you even realize that you keep using buzzwords yourself like “projection”, “political correctness” and “weaponized language”?
Moderation is not the same as censorship and what I said was that I report people who post especially unhelpful stuff, I never said I report everyone whose messages I don’t like or anything like that.
Can you tell me how exactly berating people, racial slurs and other bannable offenses improve the game experience instead of just cluttering a chat that could otherwise be used to coordinate gameplay? How about we keep the politics out of our games and focus on the gameplay instead?
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Sorry man, but there is no need to take sides in any controversial topic if the problem has multiple dimensions in which some support your view on things and others not.
In fact it is a major strength to be able to consider multiple povs and to have different opinions on the same issue from different angles.
People who tends to take sides solely based on own beliefs/experiences tend to ignore valid arguments which counter them - that’s why being open minded and being flexible is the natural enemy for people asking to take sides.
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I get that and any reasonable person would.However communication is vital in battle but chat is not in battle communication, its small talk and having turned it off after two months nothing changed except I don’t have to endure somebody using the N word or thinking they have the right to abuse anybody with oriental writing in their player tag.
I will take any direction from a good player leading the charge but I don’t need anything from a mouthy loser with no kills and 2 deaths swearing at the team like it’s all their fault.
If somebody says "Hell I love shouting abuse at the Chinese " well at least they are honest and then they can take the richly deserved ban.
In short I just don’t see the value of the product you are defending or how it can be of such value to anybody.
With regards to the OP if the battle feels sterile or lonely then join a squadron.
I want to add that I got even more respect if someone is able to say “I was wrong”. Beeing able to change and adapt because of valid information is a thing that get more and more lost in our society. So stay brave and do mistakes even in conversations.
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Why, are you that curious as to what idiots have to say?
Projection isn’t a buzzword. It’s a psychological process. Weaponized language refers to new words that infiltrate the internet to cause massive division. I also don’t see how political correctness is a buzzword. It’s a real phenomenon. Accusing someone of “toxicity” is a form of gaslighting.
I joined the conversation because you accused someone of “self-reporting,” and an argument was emerging around the use of that term. It’s another way of accusing someone of being “toxic.” This is a form of social shaming. Just because I’m “berating” you in public, doesn’t mean I’m trying to elicit public shaming. I’m trying to talk to you directly about your haphazard use of an invasive species of language.
I maintain the position that toxicity isn’t real in gaming, that it’s just trash talk. Even if someone is hell bent on destruction because they’re over worked in the game, I wouldn’t label it “toxic” except to describe perhaps their physical muscles. I wouldn’t consider that to be something worth condemning someone over. They’re trying really hard in the game. Why would I fault them for that? Most of all, why would I want them kicked or banned from the game? Lol That guy is actually trying. Why would I want him gone? So what if he might need a break. It’s not my place to have that kind of power over someone’s free will and agency.
There in lies the other problem with the report system. Only certain types of people actually use the report system. Some people never click report because it never occurs to them to do so. These people do not get representation in conversations like we’re having.
How does it improve the game experience
It makes me feel like I’m in a warzone which I love. I wish there weren’t even chat filters blocking out words.
Clutter
This is your own idiosyncrasy or possibly some sort of OCD. If you think people wouldn’t be screaming at each other in a war scenario, you are sorely lacking in experience. I’m not saying you have to actually go to war to know this, but you should be able to understand it from some sort of competitive environment. You’re not going to get kicked off the battlefield and sent back to base because you said a bad word. hahahaha
I would love to keep politics out of games, but your kind seem hell bent on ensuring they are in the game. This accusation infesting online games of “toxicity” is a political argument in nature. It’s a tool for homogenizing all video game environments to support censorship protocols. These censorship protocols are EXTREMELY easily abused to silence other voices that get lumped into the toxicity category. This goes for any topic that doesn’t serve the wishes of the ultimate financial backers that hold so much sway in society. You and others that push their “toxicity” narrative are usually unwittingly pawns for them, volunteers even.
Even now I’m not suggesting you get banned from the game. I’m trying to work with you and help you see the error of your ways that you’re contributing to the very toxicity that you seem to hate. I’ve already seen games die to this trend which is why I’m so prominent in this discussion now.
@Uncle_J_Wick Ok, but Bovey seems to be contradicting himself from post to post. He pointed out how “self-report” is a new buzzword. Then he went on to agree with the same guy about behavior in game.
Abuse
Again, it’s trash talk. You just said you can’t determine how people feel when they type, yet you condemn someone all the same for the things they say. You’re a walking talking self-contradiction.
Richly deserved ban
I told you to imagine what it would feel like to be banned by your fellow players. I don’t think you took the time to imagine it.
Join a squadron
Oh I’m sure you’ll find a way to insert your political correctness into that chatroom too.
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Seeing this sentence - it reminds me that the opposite of “good” is very often “in or with good faith”…
Again i share some of your views, but imho you are addressing the wrong audience here - as the the social, educational and cultural differences (in order to avoid the word diversity) of players active in the game, in this forum and even in this thread are way too large that your goals can be seen as realistic and achievable .
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Using psychological terms when you’re not a psychologist is using buzzwords, the terms are often used wrong in pop psychology or indeed used as “weaponized language” to shut other people up. Hence your continued use of the words is easily interpretable as an attempt to shut me up since we didn’t even have any kind of in-depth conversation about anything to allow you to properly diagnose me. And that’s not me playing the victim, I’m just explaining why I called them buzzwords. You later also alledge that I might have OCD after quoting one sentence from me. That’s not a serious psychological diagnosis, it’s just using buzzwords.
As for accusing people of being toxic, one could say so I guess. I was saying if people in chat are antagonistic, aggressive and berate people, my willingness to cooperate gets lower and the chance that I remember the report function exists rises. the “explanation” of they’re all tired from work doesn’t matter. They’re literally the ones bringing politics into the game by posting about them in chat, and not me when I report them, you’re turning things around there. What do you even mean by “your kind”? Now you seem to be “projecting” some sort of stereotype onto me (again) so you can claim things about me without even knowing whether they fit or not. Can we maybe agree to just not do that?
And why would you suggest I get banned from the game? Because I said I reported people in the game for making unhelpful chats? Or because I pointed out that many people here were talking about their chat bans? Is saying that bans might be justified a bannable offense? Are you “gaslighting” me now? Why even say that?
To maybe make this a bit more productive again, what I would really like to see more of are the auto-messages that you can use relatively quickly via direct keybinds, they’re not really the same as text chat but due to the audio element they’re also a lot more noticeable. When I’m really busy fighting someone or looking for enemies in a distant forest I often forget to look at text chat. Hearing “they’re on our left flank!” or something like that could be really helpful then.
In the words of the character Robert Ford from the TV show Westworld:
"Mistakes” is the word you’re too embarrassed to use. You ought not to be. You’re a product of a trillion of them. Evolution forged the entirety of sentient life on this planet using only one tool: the mistake.
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It’s amazing how you took my insignificant points as my main points. You’re taking this extremely personally for some reason. Whether or not I’m a psychologist is irrelevant. The term has a definition. It’s not meant to shut you up. It’s just a way to explain how I’m perceiving your argument.
Topic of you being banned
I’m saying that even though I disagree with you, that doesn’t mean I would report you or want you to disappear from the game or forum. Most people use the report system because they disagree with that person. They actually want that person removed from the game, which I think is very insane, anti-social behavior.
OCD
If you want such a clean chat, why don’t you turn it off? Why are you trying to dominate what people say or are allowed to say in the chat box? It actually fades extremely fast, so fast that you have to press Enter like you’re going to type, just to bring it back up and read it. I’m saying your perception of it being clutter doesn’t make it clutter. It’s your own personal feelings which stem from some baseline sentiment. What that baseline is I have no idea, but I think YOU should find out before you issue that kind of feedback which dictates how other people can communicate.
What I would like to see is more chat homogenization and sterilization so it is a safe space for me.
I’m not disagreeing that the automated radio comms are helpful. I think they’re great. That doesn’t mean they should replace the actual chat box. You’re in favor of sterilizing the game to protect people that you think are victims. This goes especially for people like @BoveyBadBoy69 that sees a victim of hate speech in every statement and wants to protect them due to a false sense of self-righteousness which is actually given to him via the elite’s mass media conditioning, all with the purpose of dividing and conquering us. He now sees his fellow man as enemies because he’s been programmed with a new perception that dominates his old one.
Let me try to explain a specific example he mentioned with the guy shouting at Asian players. This is not a self-report like you desperately hope for, but I would probably do the same thing sometimes if I weren’t constantly on the defensive from people like you that love to report people. If an Asian player shows up in a match with their distinctly, vividly different language in their name slot, something that is completely unreadable by an untrained person, that person sees them as an “Other.” This is not fundamentally “RACIST.” If I see a name like “Turdbungler,” I relatively instantly know that person’s personality. But when I see a bunch of special characters or characters I don’t recognize from my language, I have no idea how to identify that person. You might think that’s not necessary, but sometimes it comes to one’s attention.
The person trash talking an Asian player is simply putting forth a challenge to play well and get a good score, nothing more. It’s not HATE. If that Asian player puts up a good score, or he breaks a stereotype, he earns that person’s respect. You may think that that victimized Asian doesn’t need to do that, but that’s what competition is and what competition is about. It’s about overcoming challenges. It happens in various ways that often never pertain categorically, in any perceivable way, to people’s race, but that often doesn’t get the attention of the Reporters. Sometimes it actually does, depending on the demographic of the game. Any feedback directed at any single person can warrant reports because of the attempt to maintain the safe space for any and all perceivable victims. If this is the case, the game is already in its death throes.
What in essence is happening is people are playing referee instead of letting boys be boys. Your sense of status as a referee is granted to you by people that want to see your destruction. You think what you’re doing is good. That’s how it was sold to you in the first place. You’ve been programmed, and that’s all there is to it.
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Firstly; let me first congratulate on a well written and well presented post.One that I don’t agree with.
See what I did there.I commended you for doing well yet I don’t agree with any of it.
Your issue is you fail to understand pragmatism.There is no weakness in commending the quality of a well made counterpoint or understanding somebody committing a crime while not condoning the crime itself.
Like parliamentary debate
“My right honourable friend makes a good point however…”
Lets address a few points
Maintain that to the law because in law typing abuse in the UK falls under the telecommunications abuse laws,it’s the same as ringing somebody and heavy breathing down the phone or making threats as was the case in the 60s or 70s when it was introduced and common,so you are very much responsible for what you type online whether social media or in game.Not sure what the rules in the US etc but you need to be careful.There is no difference in law in many countries between typing in chat and posting somebody a death threat or abuse in a sent letter.Abuse is abuse no matter the medium.
I’ve been in a warzone and it made me value people and human life.It also cured me of my racism as I went from my white enclave into the big wide world and put my life in the hands of people from all races.The reason I play WW2 is because I have lived in modern military vehicles and I know how far WT is from reality,I don’t want to be shaking my head every five minutes.Believe me you won’t hear worse language then when I am at work or a lack of political correctness but its time and place.Yes I let myself down sometimes but at least I know when I have.
They are in the game hence why we have a chat timer and so many bans.You are lucky Gaijin keep it at all.We went from Ukraine/Russia to Palestine /Israel and so it goes on.
The game is no place for a freedom of speech rant.There is no such thing as freedom of speech.You can say what you like sure but be very prepared to face the consequences.That is where an adult has to act like an adult.Assuming they are one of course.
No Bovey agrees where he agrees and disagrees where he disagrees.The warthunder forum is not about party politics it’s about discussion and maybe trying to make the game all things to all people as best as is possible via debate.Debate is the key.Can you debate? If you were on the Oxford debating team you would have to defend a motion for half an hour then argue against the same motion for the next half an hour.You swop sides.No emotional attachment.
One person’s trash talk /banter is another persons Racist/Sexual abuse ,again check the law in you vicinity and respect the stance of Gaijin who are ultimately responsible.Look at the flack Elon Musk is getting with X regarding censorship or the perceived lack of.
Don’t try to defend typing the N word to a guy with a black avatar or abusing somebody with Chinese/Japanese writing under the guise of politically correctness.Good manners are far older the being PC.Manners maketh man…or woman!!
Don’t try to defend using foul language in a game with no age limit.
It is people like you who defend this stupidity and think its just banter who brought the chat ban in and will be the cause of chat going in the bin.
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Honestly, I fail to see the relevance of this observation. We do and have plenty of things that would have no place on a real battlefield. We respawn when we die. We charge into CQC in huge tanks without infantry. Artillery is a joke. Etc etc…
WT is an extremely engrossing game, but it has next to zero “battlefield immersion”, it’s in the competition that you are immersed when you play. So policing/not policing chat based on “realism” is a suggestion that makes me scratch my head a little bit.
You can then of course choose whatever criteria you think make for acceptable communication between competitors. It’s normal for competitions to do that. You can legitimately argue that an unmoderated chat reflects the competitive spirit, sure, that’s way more pertinent.
I’ll be quite frank and point out that you seem just as quick to jump to far-reaching conclusions, as the people you criticise for that very behaviour.
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So many gamers these days weren’t tested or forged properly and it shows. The days of xbox360 for example was the best. Halo 3, CoD, Battlefield and so on - there was as much trashtalk as there was kinship forged through gameplay and genuine competition, and it was beautiful.
Tbh, the same shared experience can lead to very different conclusions. On imageboards 15 years ago (not sure about now) every other comment was usually about inviting OP to commit suicide. So when I see that stuff in the WT chat, it doesn’t really bother me. That’s what internet culture used to be when I was growing up.
But I’ve also lived lots of personal experiences since then, that have made me really appreciate the beauty to be found in “the kindness of strangers”, which is why I like the occasional instances of wholesome thunder that I run across.
Giving a straight, helpful answer when someone asks for advice. Complimenting an enemy tanker for a nice, skilled duel you enjoyed, regardless if you won or lost. That sort of thing.
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I’m just wondering how you arrive at your sweeping conclusions about me based on a few sentences. you used very big words after reading just a few lines from me. As for dominating the chat, the same could be said in reverse, these people are trying to dominate both the discussions and other players by putting them down. I already said I don’t report everyone just because they said something I find silly or wrong, but if they keep going on harassing people then I might indeed.
Turning the chat off would not allow for any gameplay coordination, would it? That’s basically asking people to either get verbally abused all the time or shutting themselves out, it’s also a form of domination, wouldn’t you say?
As for me wanting to “sterilize chat to protect victims”, where in my explanation did you read that? I explained why I’d like more auto-messages and it had absolutely nothing to do with that.