Why does a 1940s tank Fight Leopard 2s and T-80s?

DM-63 or No, the Olifant MK2 is WAY over tiered, it is a Equivalent of the Upgraded T-62s and T-55s, NOT Leopard 2s.

The Centurion its based off of was built in the 40s! it has none of the modern Crew Survivability built into it that other modern tanks do. Its Composite armor can’t even stop 8.3 HEAT Rounds, LET ALONE 10.3 APFSDS rounds that its constantly fighting because 10.3 is basically THE most popular BR for top tier, meaning EVERY MATCH it gets is a Maximum uptier.

its a massive target, and don’t even get me started on the fact it can be PENETRATED BY A 50 CAL. Or the fact the “internal” Fuel tank in the hull was actually separated from the crew by a like half inch steal plate, meaning it shouldn’t be getting fuel explosion and killed when someone even SCRATCHES that fuel tank. It’s more protected than the T-90M’s fuel tanks yall keep saying shouldn’t explode and kill its crew.

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What do you want done? It will lose the DM63 if it gets downtiered by the way.

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Give it DM33, and Move it down to like 9.0, or if i got my way. 8.7.

Its worse than the Cheiftain’s in every way but Mobility and Sights.

Hell even its M111 shell would do decent at 8.7, It doesn’t even need DM33 to be competitive at those tiers.

and gun? The far better gun? And the Generation 2 thermals?

This thing isn’t going anywhere south of 9.3. It has gen2 thermals.

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So does the Warrior? And the Wiesel.

Also The 105 L7 is NOWHERE near better than the British 120, M111 gets nearly 100mm less pen than L23 on the Chieftain Mk10, and thats at 9.0, with FAR better spall and with FAR superior armor and Turret traverse.

EDIT: Thermal’s don’t make it amazing, i’ve had PLENTY of AMAZING games in my Chieftains and stuff without thermals.

Warrior and Wiesel have far more limitations such as firepower to where they can exist at lower BRs. I want you to actually compare the olifant to OTHER MBTs at 9.0. You’re going to find that the singular only 9.0 MBT in the entire game to have thermals AT ALL is the M60A3 and that thing is hot garbage, far worse than the Olifant could ever be. So you’d want the Olifant Mk2 to be a lower BR than every other MBT that has thermals, when it has gen2?

Yeah, it is better. A lot better. Chieftain has FAR less angled pen (hint, the pen that actually matters. You need to stop focusing on flat pen, it rarely comes into play) and has a longer reload as well.

Gen2 thermals don’t belong south of 9.3 on an MBT, sorry. That just isn’t balanced.

A MBT with nothing for armor… poor Mobility, has 50 Cal capable weak spots… Underwhelming turret traverse and gun elevation… AND is legit a explosion magnet due to garbage Ammo storage and a Fuel tank right up front that is seemingly filled with napalm?

Hell i don’t even USE Thermals 99% of the time, i just use my EYE’s. even where i play on super high graphics settings.

That may be partially because im red green color blind, so tank’s stand out like a SORE THUMB to me, but still.

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Okay then Gen 2 Thermal’s Don’t belong on any IFV’s or Lights, Or SPAA, or ANYTHING else under 9.3 either.

Ok and the M46 Patton was the M26E2 however the M46 saw service till 1957 so it could have fought T-54s and T-55s. Hell if War had broken out, it would have seen service once more both in the rear guard and reserves.

So your entire state makes little logic. Also, it was 1946 which means it would have remained competitive. Did you also forget that all it takes it retrofits to change how a vehicle will perform in the future for other types of doctrines?

Those are fine, since those aren’t MBTs with actual guns.

That doesn’t matter to the balance of a vehicle.

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I mean the Internal Modules and how easy it is to knock out a vehicle should, and GUESS WHAT? Inside its still just a Centurion MK3 with a 105 shoved in the turret.

But with the added fuckery of a Fuel tank that should be a drinking water tank, and a bunch of ammo thrown about the tank in the easiest places to get hit.

So with the same reason apply for Russian and Germany (since you just want to aim for these 2 nations)

Why the M48 Super from German and T-62M1 from Russia can end up fighting with Challenger DS with the “less protection” with worse gun handeling (for T-62M1) and mobility (M48 Super) then the Olifant Mk2. They are just M48 and T-62, why they need to face Challenger ?

Just compare it to the other thermal equipped tanks at 9.3. Armour is a non issue. None of these tanks have any real armour other than some composites or ERA on the turret face. None of these tanks have amazing survivability; in fact I’d argue the Olifant Mk.2 has better-than-average survivability since the ammo is on the floor or low in the turret basket, unlike the M48 Super or Leopards who have first stage ammo inside the turret. Mobility is around the middle of these tanks, so it’s certainly not awful. And it’s literally the only tank with commander thermals at this BR. That’s a massive advantage compared to the others who have to use binoculars or poke their whole turret out to use thermals. If you’re not using the thermals, you are artificially putting yourself at a huge disadvantage.

Are you suggesting that we move the M48 Super, Leopard 1A5s, Type 74 (G), CM11, AMX 32s, Strv 105, Magachs, and however many other 9.3 thermal tanks I’ve missed down to 9.0 or, heaven forbid, 8.7?

Huh? The Olifants ammo is stored right up front in the hull, and upright on the sides of the hull.

Where exactly are you being .50 called from?

No logic here, just because an IFV has thermals or another light vehicle type has thermals this does not mean they are equal somehow to MBTs with thermals. Warrior is 8.3 because it doesn’t have the firepower to be higher. It also cannot heavily influence battles with its thermals, they only assist. The Olifant Mk2 can just ridgeline at long range and snipe all the obviously spotted tanks with its crisp gen2 modern thermals… fighting tanks that don’t even have thermals.

Yes, and same for many others. There is no disadvantage here.


Besides, why are you showing your hull anyway? It’s a hull down sniper, just like every other thermal tank.

Olifant Mk2 is a great 9.3.
How about instead of wanting to nerf great tanks, maybe don’t…

The Oliphant is fine at 9.3 in a vacuum, however it shares a few traits that make it not ideal at 9.3 similar to other tanks.

It’s reliant on hulldown tactics and sniping in matchmaker that has significantly limited the possibilities to do that.

It’s a slow tank in a meta that heavily favors fast vehicles.

Being at 9.3, it’s almost always sucked into the 10.0/10.3 black hole MM, where the power spike is absurd. The difference in power between the Oliphant (or just about any other MBT) to the Leopard 2 is comical.

And it’s got a very limited lineup. The VFM is far weaker due to the lack of thermals and actual paper thin armor, and that’s the only other tank at it’s BR. The Rooikat MTTD isn’t terrible, but the gun holds it back in uptiers, and the Chieftain Mk 10 doesn’t uptier very well. You also lack a particularly useful SPAA, with no IR SAM you’re helpless against guided munitions, and the two 35mm options aren’t amazing at such a high tier.

The combination of DM63 and high quality thermals leaves it in an OK spot compared to other 9.3s, it just suffers from other issues that need to be resolved on their own.

But, while we’re remixing vehicles in this lineup, I’ll repeat my opinion that the VFM should lose DM33 and go down to 8.7/9.0, while the MTTD should get DM33 and go up to 9.3.