# Why do Gun penetration inaccuracies get instantly shut down when bug reported?

Devs do have a spreadsheet for reference

Its from this blog, [Development] Reports concerning the protection of post-war combat vehicles - News - War Thunder so awhile back but does still contain useful information.

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Those aren’t actual test values though, those are just the deMarre/Lanz values based on variation from one reference round with trusted ballistics. Would be interesting to know which is the “trusted” one, is all I’m saying.

The spreadsheet is the same values (with some level of bugginess because the web code hasn’t kept up with all changes since 2019) found in calculator form here: New formuls for calculating of the armour piercing — War Thunder Wiki

The game uses the Jacob DeMarre formula to calculate penetration values. I think this is dumb and the DeMarre forumla penetration values should only be used when real penetration values are not available, but that is the way it’s done. It’s dumb, but that’s how it works.

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No it’s not. Things were way worse before they started using standardized formula.

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There could be a sort of middle ground between using the formulas and real life penetration values.

As we know, De Marre is a formula that works via “comparison”. That’s to say, you take a reference round with known characteristics, and you estimate the penetration of a round of which you know all the characteristics except penetration.

We already have multiple De Marre calculators in this game. Normal AP rounds, APCR and APDS all use different calculators between each other, with their own set of parameters. What’s stopping Gaijin from going further? Having specific calculators for specific types of rounds inside each of these three categories, using real life penetration values of a specific round and applying that specific De Marre calculator to other rounds of that type?

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it really really sucks especially when even without documents available its clearly wrong

Not the shape?

Isn’t the pontyness so to speak one of the most important factors in Penetration, since it determines the area the initial energy is applied to?

not the most defining factor by any means, can be a hinderance quite often too

Don’t know honestly; wish it was properly implemented, lol. The Strv 103 has the longer L7/105mm gun over the centurion, yet the round has = Penetration and velocity, while both should be higher by a bit.

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The Strv 103 has faster APDS with better penetration than other 105 mm cannons…

Yes, that’s what I said, was that not made clear?

Your comment makes it sound like it isn’t implemented this way in game, when it is.

I’m 90% sure it isn’t…

I recently have been playing the 103A and 101, and they have the same pen

Strv 103A

Strv 101

The Strv 103s fire their APDS rounds with a 22 to 24 m/s higher muzzle velocity.

Hmm, guess they recently changed it, because I don’t remember it being like that a while back.

The Gaijin calculator is notoriously bad which is why there is a whole SUGGESTION (!!!) thread for improving it, because right now it massively gimps US AP and APCR rounds to the point they can’t achieve their real life purposes (T33 penning Panther UFP at 1 km, M103 penning IS-3 frontally at 2 km etc.)

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That would fall under type of penetrator.

can it be used as basis for bug reports? CV90120’s DM23 velocity got lowered to L/44 levels some time ago

it? whats it?

All penetrators of a type are absolutely identical in Dimensions and only vary in scale?