Why do CAS players so vocally oppose any suggestions

[Thunderphenol]

If we are going by that logic, this discussion is actually supposed to be a meta discussion about how CAS players vocally oppose suggestions (See image below for proof). I unfortunately don’t seem to see that here, instead I see a bunch of people arguing while not listening to each other.

Spoiler

Thankfully we don’t go by that logic as this topic is tangentially (not directly) related to the main topic. As I see it it exists as an issue that needs to be hashed out.

Not to mention, how is this a rebuttal to what I posted??

[Casino_Knight]

You’re behaving like a petulant child.

Ad hominem!

In fact it’s quite the opposite, you’re the one who brought up imaginary statistics in an attempt to support your own poorly founded argument and discredit ULQ_Lover, then when you’re called out on it you just attempt to scurry away and obfuscate.

Why? Well simply because you won’t and can’t admit to just making it up because you think you are very clever.

Feel free to surprise me with these statistics at any point and substantiate your claims. We both know that is never going to happen though.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@SlowHandClap

So to clarify:
You believe that when in 100 matches one player wins 90% of the time in equal tanks, that giving the other player better vehicles won’t change the 90% win rate?

If he is good enough then Yes. If something changes ge just needs to get better

[ULQ_LOVER]

@Thunderphenol

If we are going by that logic

You should not Jump into discussion about ground (as it was about TO)

[GNDM_Panzer]

@SlowHandClap

Pantsir counters air vehicles, because it costs less SP than air assets, and has a much easier time killing them than the air assets have killing the pantsir.

Lot of top tier matches I’ve played against Russia I see my team not even bothering to try to even spawn CAS because there’s no point when the Pantsir can basically kill you as soon as you spawn. It’s just another example of good ole’ Russian Bias, frankly.

[SlowHandClap]

Yeah it’s the only spaa that can effectively spawn camp the enemy air spawn, by preemptively launching missiles.

[Lichdragon_Fortysnacks]

Here’s why:

1. The suggestions are never an invitation to discussion and disagreeing is treated like it’s verbal harassment.
2. A lot of suggestions are only from the perspective of a limited BR range, where the change and/or reasons for suggesting the change lose validity outside of that range, but the poster doesn’t want to refine the suggestion in any way.
3. The perception of CAS poorly represents its numerical performance. Changes often don’t consider how it will affect new/low-skill players who also want to play CAS because they’re fixated on trying to force a handful of top-performers to play differently.
4. I don’t respect the opinions of people who’s gameplay records indicate they’ve never even tried the things they’re trying to nerf. This isn’t a CAS only thing, there’s a lot of people who want to nerf something they’ve never played.

[FrostPaladin]

@ULQ_LOVER so uhhh the thread closed while I was typing, so I’m going to post it here if you don’t mind.

[FrostPaladin]

Let me paint you a picture of how I see GRB EC. It’s very delusional and far-fetched, but please listen.

Imagine a server, possibly 32vs32 players, maybe even bigger(poor Gaijin). A massive map, similiar to what we have in Air EC, but not all of it will be playable of course for ground players.

In the center we will have the ground battlefield, the usual stuff. It should be probably 2-3 times bigger than the large maps that we have. If the gamemode is Conquest, then the map will have 5-9 objective points that players will have to capture. They won’t be in the smack middle of the map, they will be spread out, some of them on one half of the battlefield, some on the other, it doesn’t have to be symmetrical like what we have right now.

Each team will be have 2-3 layers of spawns. Forward spawn, that will be enables once the team captures closest point to them, Rear spawn, where they basically should be able to spawn ALONG THE ENTIRE SIDE OF THE MAP(A1-10 squares for example) and the FOB spawn.
FOB spawn will be a heavily fortified base in the far back, protected by layers of AI SPAA and AA systems, where players could rearm, replenish, despawn their vehicles and be defended in case their lines collapse or they are getting spawn camped.

Now, we described the tank battlefield. What about the rest of the map?
Well, first of all, there will be A LOT of AI units around the tank battlefield which can be used as targets for CAS and threat for tanks and aircraft. Artillery emplacements, which we used to have before, they could be destroyed to disable a team’s ability to call strikes(also protected by SPAA). FOB can be bombed and destroyed, given if you dare to challenge it’s formidable defences. You could go for an enemy airfield and try to bomb it to disable AI Air support.

There will be AI air! AI CAS which could be used similiarly to Artillery strikes, except SPAA players can shoot them and get more exp. AI CAP and Interceptors which will roam around their team’s side of the map and aggro onto anyone who dares to fly into their airspace. Moders AA system’s like Patriot and S-400 will swat down people who think that GBU bombing from 20km is funny and they are invulnerable.
The point being that Air players will not only have better stuff to do than to revenge bomb, it will be infinitely more difficult and unrewarding to do so.

That’s just a little bit of stuff I have on my mind when I mean we need new maps and gamemodes. And this surely will relieve most of people frustrations with GRB that they have right now. Granted, it would require an unprecedented amount of work, AI reworks etc, but this is the dream I have.
That one day, we would have a true EC Combined Warfare mode.

I should’ve made a thread myself :)

[ULQ_LOVER]

It is all nice and I would love to see it but first we need a place for tankers to just play against tanks.

[AverageWehraboo]

Where is the problem if you get to play your improved Mixed RB and the people that want to play tanks get to play Tank RB? Ground RB queue times are like 20 seconds depending on server and time of day.

[AverageWehraboo]

You would counter a tank with your own tank. You shouldn’t spawn SPAA in a ground only (this mode should be added it’s not in the game right now Idk why you have trouble understanding that) match. Now tell me how do I counter a plane in tank?

[SlowHandClap]

@AverageWehraboo

Now tell me how do I counter a plane in tank?

“How do I win with paper against scissors?”

I’m sorry if you feel it was missold to you, but ground rb has never meant to be a tank-only paradise for people who don’t want to play anything except tanks. You’re more than welcome to ask for it, but you can do that in the suggestions part of the forum.

“Why do cas players so vocally oppose any suggestions”? - it’s because of this attitude. You ask for CAS to be nerfed into oblivion and SPAA to be made more and more OP at top tier. Why should we support you getting a tank only mode when you still want the mixed-rb gamemode to be balanced in favour of SPAA.

@ULQ_LOVER

It is all nice and I would love to see it but first we need a place for tankers to just play against tanks.

“I’m more important than everyone else! Give me what I want first!”

[Dodo_Dud]

…so vocally oppose…

After the latest poll result and all the threads regarding CAS, I come to the conclusion that the vocal minority is not composed of CAS players.
But nice try…

[AverageWehraboo]

You ask for CAS to be nerfed into oblivion and SPAA to be made more and more OP at top tier.

Nice strawman. We want Ground RB to stay the same and a seperate gamemode only for tanks. You can keep playing however you want in your gamemode.

Why should we support you getting a tank only mode when you still want the mixed-rb gamemode to be balanced in favour of SPAA.

They don’t. Tank only players don’t care about Mixed RB. It’s your job as a Mixed RB advocate to get Gaijin to balance your game mode.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@SlowHandClap

“I’m more important than everyone else! Give me what I want first!”

What? I just understand that all of this changes won’t solve the problem we have and making more nerfs/buffs won’t solve it either.

But then ye, we should have the same gameplay for another 10 years with more nerfs/buffs tha no one likes!

[warrior412]

@SlowHandClap

There is a lot neither of them understand.

To borrow something I’ve said previously, you have to be very patient with them. I have explained matters to both of the relevant individuals many times, but their pace of learning has been about even with the pace of a T95 going uphill…it’s been sluggish.

I have mostly given up on trying to educate them (it seems hopeless), but I do still invite them to talk via PM if they want to grasp what I have tried explaining many times before.

The forums have become (more) dysfunctional since the new site came along because loose moderation has let duplicate and garbage threads run amok.

Spammers whimpering about ___ because ___ gave them a wedgie last game are a large fraction of what you see here. It’s sad and why real discussions cannot take place here.

[БЕИ]

@warrior412

To borrow something I’ve said previously, you have to be very patient with them. I have explained matters to both of the relevant individuals many times, but their pace of learning has been about even with the pace of a T95 going uphill…it’s been sluggish.

I have mostly given up on trying to educate them (it seems hopeless), but I do still invite them to talk via PM if they want to grasp what I have tried explaining many times before.

Hmm, I don’t know which post this statement was referring to, most of the guys your buddy argued with know how to play the game themselves judging by their records, the only thing he repeatedly doing is telling people what they already know and asking them to suck it up for things they don’t like, that add nothing and improve nothing to their gameplay, how do you think John Cena will response to you when you walked up to him and trying to give him advice on how to become more successful in life? most of the time you guys are incredibly unhelpful, being incredibly unhelpful is one thing, trying to gatekeep something from happening just makes you look even worse, furthermore, associate yourselves with players who are not only being unhelpful and thumbed up their trolls/unhelpful comment and wondering why people won’t listen lol

[warrior412]

@VenomThanos

how do you think John Cena will response to you when you walked up to him and trying to give him advice on how to become more successful in life?

I mean, if John Cena walked up to you to give you advice it may be advisable to listen…he’s pretty rich and so he might have something useful you’ll want to hear.

After that stunt last week, you’ll probably want to make sure he’s wearing at least a toga though…

most of the time you guys are incredibly unhelpful, being incredibly unhelpful is one thing, trying to gatekeep something from happening just makes you look even worse, furthermore, associate yourselves with players who are not only being unhelpful and thumbed up their trolls/unhelpful comment and wondering why people won’t listen lol

What I was referring to was very broad, hence the quip about “a lot” being unknown to those two and many others.

I won’t comment on what others do, but I will point out discussing how WT is and explaining how to make it as-is is neither gatekeeping nor unhelpful.

A lot of the detailed, informed attempts at discussion I’ve made at enlightening some folks here over the realities of WT go right over their heads because they refuse to acknowledge facts that don’t mesh with their narrative…which is absurd (and why discussions with them go nowhere).

Considering that learning others’ playstyles are potential ways out of endless complaining about ___, they are probably goods offramps for many.

[Illynore]

What is ULQ?