Again, you aren’t wanting to argue, you want me to change my stance… Big difference.
Maybe they could add an air zone called “air supremacy”.
This zone would be low and over the ground map, around 20 seconds to cap and 5 seconds to neutralize, this zone would not bleed ticket (it’s ground mode) But CAS would need to hold the zone to be able to damage ground unit.
This way CAS would need to be exposed to SPAA fires before attacking more freely, and CAP could be more efficient at defending ground unit by neutralizing the zone and making ground unit immune to enemy CAS.
It could balance slightly.
Or I saw previously your were opposed to ground only mode because the grind would be easier without the threat of planes, maybe they could add ground only but with reduced rewards to balance it with the combined arms.
You said this earlier, and I said about this being a better option, thing is this isn’t about the suggestion, it’s about why ‘cas players’ are so vocal in thier opposition.
But really, the way to get planes exposed to SPAA fire earlier is to encourage thier use, and the awareness of the team to further them being ‘ready’.
This also prevents as you say, the air being able to attack as freely as they do.
The premise of these peoples stance is that no-one should have to do that, and that they want ground v ground alone because they don’t want the planes at all.
I have indeed leaned toward that point in the past, by mentioning that it’s actually unfair to have that be a situation, but the only thing these guys see as ‘unfair’ is just being bombed or outplayed, by ‘something they can’t touch’ but that’s the same with the across the map sniper and such other outplayed moments.
Furthermore, when they added the ‘Air alert’ radio message, I had been doing that manually for months, calling out planes when they first spawned, and more often when they start thier attack run, because those moments are the critical moments in thier moves. These guys don’t think much of anyone else, let alone their team, and thus don’t classify the counter, or the threat correctly.
that was not the point and if it was, where are the players complaining being snipped by something untouchable, if it is the same it should be easy to find some post here or on internet about snipping problem, it is not… But try with CAS
That’s nice of you and that’s we can expect from a good teammate. But that doesn’t solve the problem of CAS having the high ground in ground mode so why don’t you suggest anything to improve that?
There’s so many about the forums and the general consensus is the trimming down of the outers of the maps was to appease them…
I don’t think you’ve actually looked to be honest.
Vocal minority will keep being beligerant, as this whinge has been 6 years in the making… Were you in those threads as well? No? …
I was in the middle of being dogpiled by several people ignoring the point of even making effort, and you came in to jump in on that…
Again, as I mentioned, this is nothing to do with the suggestion, but the objection of others to a DEMAND from a VOCAL MINORITY who SPAM THE CRAP OUT OF EVERYTHING with the ABSOLUTE IGNORANCE of NOT WANTING A SOLUTION, JUST THEIRS…
You’ve really jumped on the wrong thread at the wrong time to be honest…
I still don’t understand why is it a problem to add a new game mode.
You want to play the actual one, still possible. You want to improve or change the actual mode, still possible.
And bonus on top of that, you get rid of all the post about “CAS is OP”, “CAS is unfair”, etc… you can just make a statement “you don’t like CAS, play ground only”.
EDIT: to be honest i am not against CAS as a thing, i even play it sometime, i just find it frustrating sometimes to mainly play SPAA to be able to play when i want to play tanks ^^. And i always thinks more options for players a good thing.
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I’ll take it you’re new to internet forums then?
The vocal minority are often loud, and infectious because even new players get problems from these types of things, so when I’m suggesting to a new player to actually use thier SPAA, yet these people are making out that SPAA in the top teir is useless, and there’s no point to bother, the person looking for help will judge me to be ignorant and out of my depth because some clown statchecked and said I was trash, so then they listen to the aggrieved.
But the actual problem there is the new player didn’t even try, and has been fed an excuse to not bother, so won’t. So in your example, the air threat will be free to attack.
When I mention this ‘free to attack’ air, and even slightly trying to interfere with it’s attack in the first place, or even being a distraction target so that someone else can get ahead, the ones that want these modes deny the efficiency or worth of even doing that.
Honestly, I’m a bit sad that you’ve met me in this manner, because quite frankly, the dogpiling was rife back there, and I apparently look like the asshole because of this… Again, the entire thread wasn’t about suggestions or anything discussing anything, it’s a reason to berate and gatekeep those who object some change, which some want, to feel better at a game they want to play, but can’t handle a part of it, and want to ignore it…
Ignoring it isn’t the solution, and putting thier fingers in thier ears ignoring the true suggestions other than having thier own mode is just being stupid in regards to discussion.
These guys also proclaim they discuss, but they won’t with the opposers because they can’t actually take on board anything said to threaten thier demand for a mode for the ignorant.
(Absolutely on topic)
That’s like saying BT-5 vs 2A7 fight isn’t unfair and is just a perception issue lol. That’s one of the wildest claims I’ve seen in a while.
Even BT-5 stands more chances against 2A7 than plenty of ground vehicles against any aircraft.
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CAS is just another aspect of the broken game, the list of problems is long, thankfully it is just a game. I would hate it if these guys were writing and programming something important.
As I have mentioned before to get invested/addicted to such a game is not advisable, it will impact upon your mental and psychological well being. It is designed to annoy and frustrate not a good place to be when you are supposed to be relaxing in your leisure time not their leisure time, yours !
Many players do not care anymore, it is not worth the time or effort. I often bug out if it is obvious the game is one sided for whatever reason and to deny someone as easy kill that they do not really deserve but have just been handed it by the game on a plate.
This just shows how bad faith and how closed to discussion you truely are… That’s alright, just be true to it that you’re not being serious, and you’re just being a funny guy, because that’s fine…
We all need jesters, and the fact is I will even give you a jinglebell hat to wear while you bob your head about as you chuckle to yourself.
It really isn’t.
The only one not being able to discuss is really just You here.
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Nope, I’m just showing how ludicrous your statement was.
You can easily die to something which would be considered unfair in an unbalanced game, which you somehow cannot comprehend.
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I had been referring to the presence of AI surface units (naval is in there too), not commenting on their strength.
Some time ago, I had encountered quite potent ground fire in the AFs modes…but I seldom go into AFs nowadays and have been told that the balancing of AI units’ potency has swung wildly in the intervening time.
From my own experience in RB AFs (when I played regularly (circa 2016)), I know you point about the airfield is basically correct–and that’s what destroyed balance in RB AFs. From 2015 on for at least some spell of time, camping at your own base became the meta due to AI AAA’s potency…it ruined the mode.
As others have mentioned, that sort of map design would not be suitable for air modes’ gameplay (particularly with the airfield AAA issue in mind).
The player SPAAs in air modes idea is such a problematic and niche idea that there’s no way the upheaval that map redesigns as you suggest could justify themselves. Players would be incensed, just as they were when Gaijin made a similar change (Arcade maps in RB, minus SPAAs) about 10 years ago. RB AFs players went ape at that episode and it was reverted shortly thereafter.
In its basic concept (player ground fire versus player aircraft), I’m actually open to the idea that you suggest…I just don’t think it’d actually be practical to implement because of popularity issues and mechanic constraints. I don’t see people signing on for it when getting players into SPAAs in RB GFs (where conditions are substantially more favorable for SPAAs’ needs) is already a tough haul.
To be direct, I play GFs a lot and a fair portion of the time I outright ignore aircraft (as direct fighting goes). While I will usually try to keep an awareness of my surroundings (ground and air alike), I hardly ever attempt to enter into a direct faceoff unless I’m confident it could bear fruit. In general, this seems to work pretty good…I’d say my average death rate (in GFs) to aircraft at ~10% or so.
As I’ve found it, unless you’re actively taunting the enemy team or have really irked someone enough that they want to get you with a revenge bombing, the odds are your tank is most likely more threatened by enemy GFs than any aircraft. Thus, I tend to focus most of my attention to the ground when in GFs.
You make a fair point and you are correct–not all vehicles are so agile as others. However, this still falls into the strengths and weaknesses bit I mentioned previously.
The Na-To is actually a fair example of how the strengths and weaknesses matter goes: it has a superb gun and decent maneuverability (nothing special), but it’s gun handling and especially survivability are poorer than its proper medium tank successes (Chi-Nu II and Chi-To) which carry the same gun. It is because of these differences that the vehicles have the stark BR differences they do (Na-To at 3.3 vs Chi-Nu II (4.3) + Chi-To (4.7)).
Personally, in the Na-To and other open-top vehicles (Dicker Max, Sturer Emil, etc), I seldom die to aircraft…it just doesn’t happen at any extraordinary rate. Does it happen? Yeah. Problematically so? No.
As an amusing twist, I remember using the Waffentrager as a quasi-SPAA at times (including two kills in my first match with it) and at least once scored three air kills in a single match. That vehicle would still be far better with more depression (its elevation range is a bit too well geared for the skies), but it was still comically effective when called upon.
In a game like this with such a diverse range of vehicles supporting one another with 32+ players involved, I cannot say I agree.
While defeats can be upsetting and getting wiped out can be a bummer, it’s just how it is sometimes. It’s the same situation when the awful 75mm Jumbo gets its usual trip to 6.7…where it is flat out useless against such ubiquitous foes as Tiger IIs and Jagdtigers.
The 75mm Jumbo (and the 76mm too) are only where they are in BR because their foes at 4.X didn’t use the counters given to them (Dicker Max, ISU tank destroyers, etc.) to handle the Jumbos when they were at 4.7 with roughly a 1.5 exchange rate and 52% WR.
In a game like this–with so diverse a range of vehicles and varied player tactics–balancing is, charitably, a nightmare. There are numerous balance faults that get through because only the most egregious snags provoke uproars to stop them.
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That image is very, very small but it appears to show at least 3 or 4 fireballs (presumably your buddies) and another marker on the other side of the building (a 5th enemy?). Provided that is the correct read of the image, I could see a 250kg bomb killing them and would regard their separation as “poor” if not “inadequate.” (Also: 1x250kg bomb or multiple placed closely?)
On the matter of explosions, part of what I’d said was ammo rack effects (sympathetic explosions), not necessarily direct effect.
As a seasoned Wirbelwind player, I can tell you a kill achieved with a spraying and praying (cheesy as that is) is just as deadly to the foe as a snipe. Ammo is cheap, so…
While it is true that you can potentially engage targets from high altitude (as I previously acknowledged), that is uncommon in the RB GFs meta and even lesser so due to the frequent movement of GFs–where the Wirbelwinds killed because they stood still in spawn or something?
More to the point on the setup was surviving to do that in the face of enemy ground fire and especially fighters. Running with the bombsight method while faced with competent, potent enemy fighters doesn’t bode well for the user.
That’s a fair read–but it still puts the matter into the “player skill” realm, not an issue with the game itself.
I used to take the Fury biplane into 4.X matches with my British tanks to goof around with Bf 109s/Fw 190s while working on grinding the Excelsior…considering how poor the Furies are (mostly due to the weedy guns), my successes in that crate were usually contingent on enemy failures. I wiped out several…and it was usually more by toying with them than striking any huge blows with the LMGs.
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Can’t put enough air quotes around that that it’s hilarious… It’s a game, where you have to kill someone so someone has to die. at some point along the way someone will have reason to think that how they got you was unfair because it must be your actions or the game, because they can’t possibly deserve to be hit in that manner, in a game, such as this…
Come on… Give it a break…
More of this absurd changing of the scenario to suit…
Exactly its a game, but its a PvP game where both sides should have equal opportinity to take other out. Air vs ground is not that case. What if tanks would have automated defenses like ships do? You thing it would be fair towards planes? I don’t think so.
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And that is precisely what it is… But you’re breaking the nation out and making it role specific, and then crossing that to another role, and finding fault.
That’s quite selective and problematic to actually be ‘fair’.
Thing is, it’s air and ground, vs air and ground… Not just air vs ground.
Yea, no… I don’t like that at all, but as I have said elsewhere I have been open to having AI AA out from the battlefield.
But this isn’t the problem is it, it’s because I won’t bow down to your demands to ‘accept’ your scenarios, hence this boxing absurdity.
Just because the player respawns and comes back to get you,. doesn’t make it unfair, as you can do exactly the same to them, hence overall, it’s fair.
You can’t ignore this, yet you all do…
Because it is role specific as it is multi assets game.
So if plane bombs you without and other planes or vehicles around to help you how is it air and ground vs. air and ground. This situations are very common due to random situation I wrote above. Its either lack of planes to help you, or they are too far to help you or its lack of SPAA to help you or SPAA is too far to help you or its too many planes for SPAA to handle so it cannot help you. In general it was thought to be like that but in reality its not.
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But you aren’t alone…
There’s 15 other players possibly on the field…
I know, it’s how the game plays, we have tanks and planes all about all the time. We’ve also got people dying everywhere.
And that’s where teamwork and communication come into it.
What even is this?
Placing AI air units in GRB and calling it a day would be equal treatment. That combined aspect is pretty much harmless.
That’s easy to change by making AAs the top dog, just like Air is in GRB. Popularity would surely increase.
As expected because many ground units have little to no chance of doing something against air.
Still 10% too much as most of those were highly one sided duels from the start.
I’m taunting them by spawning open top casemate with no MGs. That’s the freest kill for them and also serves as a revenge.
Ground units might threaten me more often, but at the same time I’m much more likely to have a counter to ground units than to air ones. Whole problem stems from this.
That’s the problem. Not only they can’t engage air, they can’t even try to defend themselves by running away.
Jumbo can at least track/barrel them, meanwhile 8.0 open tops are still useless against 1.0 air. That’s the big difference.
Balancing tanks on their own without air would be much easier and effective.
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