and dont forget because it functions like LOSAT missile it gains quite a lot of pen after a kilometer of flight, enough to oneshot a tank from side or an angle. Let alone the fact that it can still overpressure.
The 95Ya6M is just so mental that i genuinely dont know why its ingame. And you can turn it into aimbot against planes with jumping into radar screen after launch.
Plus it has 200m shrapnel travel distance with ludicrous shrapnel count.
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Guns are very useful not just against tanks but also against warding off close range helicopters or fly over planes. They are not your main weapon, they are an addition to already busted broken missiles.
One large difference is that the system is extremely small and agile, even on bad SPAA maps like Rhine you have options other SPAAs like SLM or T03 and similar lack. Its about the size of a tunguska with taller radar and its not a multi vehicle SPAA. If an SM SV died to SDB/JDAM spam then that is a fault of the player and not the vehicle.
No, its THE best missile in the entire game. It has M3.27 speed at ~36km distance.
No other missile bar the BUK is capable of both sheer speed and speed retention like this.
On top of it acting as LOSAT missile with extra pen the longer it flies for, AHEAD warhead meaning its not affected by helis or planes being super close to the ground, 200m sharpnel range post activation with stupidly high shrapnel count.
Ofc it matters what are you talking about. Its a K-Band PESA with 90 degree scan cone. You can drop search radar the second you get a tracking radar lock and not a single ARM in the entire game can target you. You are effectively immune to all ARMs if youre not a moron and are capable of pressing a single button.
Smoke is extremely valuable. Smoke makes every single IR or SAL missile in the entire game worthless. Only thing smokes dont work against are beamriding missiles which there arent many of outside of RU and GNSS munitions which are again outside of russia and japanese MKM slow glide bombs/non-glide JDAMs that you have TKBs to intercept with.
Having great mobilty means youre able to get into significantly advantageous spots fast or relocate if you need to (plus its not a multi vehicle) and hydraulic suspension either reduces your profile a tiny bit or helps if youre on a hill. Plus with how wide spread the pitch-up-above-spawn tactic is, finding a small mound of dirt and angling can give you the extra few degrees you need to elevate your guns/missiles towards someone flying above you.
Because top tier CAS issue was created by Russia.
We had balance, we had single shot or short range missiles.
Gaijin the pulls straight out of their bum the Kh-38 did the game need it? No was Russian CAS suffering at the time? No But Gaijin did it anyway and that started the arms race.
Gaijin then add new sams but they cannot handle the Kh-38, they add an improved Pantsir well because Russian mains are thicky thicky dum dums that don’t know how to use the BUK. We have that absolute crap from BVVD “worse performing sam” sure pal based on what data?
Russia has the best CAS including backup options and the best sams. And to finally compound the pure idiocy they give free vehicles a great idea keep people playing longer “remove” the 1 death leaver meta…Britain and the US a nice wee ADATS, Germany/France a Roland system very good and Russia maybe the TOR would be a good free sam…Oh no Gaijin need Russia to be the best and give them probably the 4th best sam in the game a free Pantsir. The single stupidest gameplay decision they have made only to be outdone by the BMP-T.
As it stands after a year or however long the Kh-38 is the best missile in game.
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So what?
Aircraft are never allowed to get any new additions just because they might be useful in GRB?
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Because they are facing outdated aircraft or drones. We have seen S-400 fail to intercept Western missiles. Until they face a real challenge the efficacy can only be gauged as such, it is a shame Iran, Syria and Venezuela did not switch their Russian sams on.
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We’ve also seen Patriot missles fails in recent conflicts… I’m not sure what the point is here. Just because you see a video of something failing doesn’t mean that represents the performance of said vehicle. Anything western that fails in media usually gets the benifit of the doubt almost everytime. So I wouldn’t use videos to compare or contrast anything.
Let me ask you this, how is EW supposed to work in Ground RB if you’re 20kms away from the battlefield. EW heavily depends on range, and if everything is within close proximity it becomes pointless (as an example)
It’s not just about getting new additions, it’s if those new additions makes sense in the games current design. How much more modern are we going to get and still be playing on small maps? That’s the question we should be asking.
This is not true, it’s been tossed between a lot of nations but Russia managed to snag the spotlight.
That is correct, you can drop the search radar and use just the K-band, but in those instances that are actually plausible, you’ve ethier visually confirmed the enemy has launched ARMS and you’ve locked them, or they’re launching them as you’re tracking them. You’re not going to be turning off your radar every single time you encounter a target as you’re implying.
As I’ve said, the missile challanges the time a CAS pilot might show himself and throw munitions, it engages much faster than your standard ARH missile you’ll find on any SAM, especially at closer ranges. I personally wouldn’t say outright broken, granted how the chances of actually hitting a plane at close range in your average SAM is not that high, but your chances of dying are very, very high.
The guns are a saving grace since depending on the map (most maps) you can use terrain to close the gap, thank multipath later and usually just gun SAMs down or throw dumbombs at them. The guns challenge a pilot whwo tries that. It happens very often so I don’t see the complaint. Maps like Vietnam for example just let you basically hide and pop up on ethier sides spawn and just merk any SAM hanging out there (As an example).
That would be true, but I wouldn’t blame it entirely on the player. Just because the SM-SV is more mobile than other SAMS doesn’t mean every map allows them to move out of spawn safely. This is why I explicitly was harping on map design since pilots know where to look the moment they drop in on almost every map.
The BUK performed about as well as every other SAM. The BUK is big, has about the least amount of missles, has to be stationary, and can be very easily overwhelmed. I’m not surprised at all it preformed badly. It being special and being able to use the TELAR radar to independentely track targets meant absolutely nothing if it’s stuck in a small space like everybody else. Hence why it’s performance was way better in Nuclear Escalation along with all other SAM systems added in that mode.
It is valuable yes, in a 1v1 situation perfect. In a situation where there’s multiple air assets up, it may not do you any good. It’s nice to have, nothing game breaking. Tanks don’t have the luxury of radar to know if they’re dying to IR munitions. Only when everyone else starts dying then they smoke (usually too late).
The current game design of ARB is that it would benefit quite a bit to get ECM.
Because the pantsir is toxic and clearly broken compared to all other SPAA offerings at top tier. Plus every so called “human” player on russian teams gets a free pantsir as well as the already broken SMV. I have literally played matches where Ive killed the same player 4 times in pantsirs when they have 0 tank kills. This isnt exclusive to the pantsir but to spaa on whole. But it makes playing the game tiresome and not enjoyable having to kill 5 pantsirs per fly out when russia deals with basically 0 resistance because other nations dont get any AA system nearly as competitive as a free spawn or otherwise.
Can’t really ignore it when it is one of the biggest issue ruining people’s gaming experience
Till nowaday my iTO still cannot climb a tiny hill and meanwhile has to face 3 Kh38MT coming to me
It is actually way more useful specifically in those situations where you fight against multiple enemies. While your focus lies elsewhere the smoke acts as a defense against getting third partied.
obviously its not game breaking, my point is that having smoke is a way larger advantage than you seem to think. Being able to be immune to vast majority of missiles (meaning fast projectiles) and only susceptible to beamriding missiles that are rare outside of russia or slow GNSS munitions is extremely useful.
i dont understand what this has to do with SM SV. And it doesnt even have to be true. If youre paying a bit of attention then you can see a plane or a heli firing off missiles. Obviously this wont work out 100% of the time as you might be focused at dealing with tanks right now to pay more attention but overall its not some impossibly rare skill to pay attention to the sky every now and again or to call outs.
Its a near-hypersonic SACLOS missile with aimbot if you know how to use it (none of that handguidance). Immune against LDIRCM or MP, with only LoS as a requirement to score a kill. It is very much broken compared to every other missile.
Even SLMs IRIS T SLs that are generally seen as one of the best FnF SAMs due to being unaffected by MP once in IR phase have the weakness of poor flight performance (from “40km effective range” public information ingame effective range caps out at around 20-25km), reliance on line of sight DL and glaring inability to hit any of the LDIRCM helicopter unless you get extremely lucky somehow and the missile locks onto a flare.*
*Oh and very very poor munition interception probability, made worse by the fact that it only has 4 DL channels.
SM SVs missile only requires LoS and then the plane is basically cooked. Ive played enough of it to know that it just molests anything in the air and pretty much 98-95% of all my deaths are to tanks and not planes or helis.
Air RB makes the most sense. For Ground I don’t see that yet.
But how can you add something to ARB and not add it to GRB?
And why should ARB be denied features because of GRB?
Already annoying enough as it is that all CAS/ground attackers are massively nerfed because of GRB.
It is if they remain in your LOS and aren’t approaching from the same general direction. If you look on the descripition of the vehicle that is one of the highlited traits on taking it out. There are plenty of times where multiple planes show up and they all take different directions. One may be “james stratting” (I hate sayiing that) and your focus has to go up. One may be approaching from far left or right. There also could be a heli up. (Not including munitions being fired your way.
At that point in time, the capibilities don’t matter anymore because that’s a level of multi-tasking no 1 SPAA system can effectively handle.
I’m saying that most times a heli is called out, people are already dying and it’s semi-too late. The SM-SV can obviously see if munitions are being fired well before hand and smoke. The smokes effectiveness scales depending on what vehicle gets it from a gameplay perspective.
There are plenty of other vehicles with the same LOS requirement and radar screen to guide it, the only standout thing about this weapon is as you said, hypersonic capibility and also not being limited to 18km- (guaranteed range) or 20kms not manuvering. Taking into account how easy it is to multipath missles or outright avoid them if you know what you’re doing (also heavily map dependent) a lot of the SAMS effectiveness don’t scale well in any regard.
And when it comes to interception, with how most CAS pilots flow, they are happening at ranges you might as well consider a deadzone for most SAMS since the name of the game is closing the distance, not jousting at long range.
If it’s clear the mode isn’t ready for it (it’s clear GRB is not) what is the sense in adding EW.
SAMS are already not performing well as it is, and they now have to deal with ARMS. Now we’re going to stack EW ontop of that (exclusively talking about Ground RB) what’s the sense.
Everything about Ground RB is fast paced. So certain procedures or delays/engagment times that actual pilots would have to fiddle with are almost non-existent in Ground RB. And again, you essentially have third person which is a massive advantage. SIM pilots aren’t able to pull a lot of the stunts Ground RB pilots can for example.
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Because Air modes are…
Thats the point.
You are basically saying “well, aircraft cant get their next logical major addition because tanks would suffer”
its stupid.
Maybe I’m getting confused or not fully understanding what you’re saying.
I’m saying Ground RB exclusively is not ready for that. I’m not saying it can’t be tested or used in other modes respectively, as seen in Nuclear Escalation for example.
But I’m also saying that if such addition is added to 1 mode, doesn’t mean it has to scale to all other existing modes.
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But how can it be added exclusively like that?
If [insert your choice of aircraft with ECM here] got ECM, then how would it be restricted to ONLY 1 mode?
The B-52/Tu-95 got ECM on NT because those aircraft in that mode were unique to that mode and different to the ones that players acquired.
So lets take a Tornado or Typhoon, if it got ECM for ARB, then it would have it in GRB. There is no way of getting round that fact at the moment. We’ve been suggesting gamemode specific restrictions for years because ground attackers keep getting artificial nerfs for the sake of GRB and only GRB, but it has never happened.
ECM/EW is likely one of the features coming this year, prior to 5th gens. It makes sense, we have seen the beta test of it a few months ago, I wouldnt be surprised if ECM/EW was actually one of the main new features of the coming major update.
Though quite frankly, where ECM would be the most effective in GRB is areas where its probably actually needed, SAMs arguably have too much range at top tier at the moment, so assuming ECM reduces the effective range of those SAMs, it would help balance things a bit. For the past 4 years, you spawn in and immediately have to defend at top tier because the spawn point is well within the kill zone of at least 1 SAM (Pantsir S1 prior to the current 12.7s)
and to be honest, its not the only buff needed, whislt some CAS, like the KH-38MT slingers are fine, there are other aircraft that need buffs, whether through better modeling of existing weapons or adding missing weapons.
Isn’t RCS and other features related to munitions exclusively modeled in certain way for Nuclear Thunder, or are going to be according to the devs? That’s something exclusive to that mode (as an example)
And before the SAMS you didn’t have to do all of that, essentially fly straight and just do whatever until you get enganged. I don’t see a “Happy medium” in this.
Looking at the map que, there are plenty of maps where you don’t neccessarily even have to start defending immediately, this only applies to a select few that a majority of the playerbase don’t like because they want fast-paced action. Or the map is just spawnwkilling each other. (in regards to tank gameplay)
The range factor of most SAMS is disregarded in Ground RB, which is why I keep using the BUK example. During it’s dev server testing, all people did was talk about the range it has, then on release, everybody is surprised that the range meant nothing on small maps, especially with how often pop up attacks are. But in Nuclear Thunder, super effective because the map isn’t insanely small and doesn’t limit handicap them like on your average GRB map.
A good amount of pilots (depending on the map) will chose airfield spawn, rather than air spawn and can be completely under the radar until it’s too late.
From how I see it, most pilots engage at close ranges and never long range, and not neccessarily because they have too, it’s just more effective across the board, especially if you’re going fast on the deck. ECM wouldn’t matter at those ranges and at the short oppurtunities they have to engage at long range, it’s almost never guaranteed.
This is why I also said map design plays a heavy role in this because it doesn’t favor long range SAMS. Adding a patriot for example wouldn’t change anything. More range sure, but the gap can quite easily be closed with most of the current map pool. Not to mention a bigger system that can’t move anywhere (map design) and can be seen by other enemy players on most maps (map design).
RCS is not yet modeled, and tied to the AI logic rather than the weapon iirc, with certain weapons getting a reduced engagement range
But as far as I am aware (though I dont really know either way) it is also applied to AI SPAA in other gamemodes as well, we have certainly seen AI SPAA switching their radars off far more with the recent changes and even munition interception was added to ARB/ASB at the same time of NT.
If/when RCS for weapons are properly added, then im expecting it for all gamemodes universally
So… why would ECM/EW be a problem? Granted we have no idea what it will actually look like in the wider game, but im largely just seeing it as reducing the effective range of weapons/radar systems, not hard-blocking them entirely like LDIRCM currently does.
But if the maps are small, then ECM/EW probably wont even be noticable for most SAMs, especially OP ones like the Pantsir SM-SV that wouldnt even care about ECM being a thing.
Like in Nuclear Thunder where range is most effective and the map does not handicap them. They have range to their advantage, allbeit they have other things helping them such as early warning radars and layered defense, that’s the idea with those kind of systems. With the way these SAMS were designed (with a select-few weapons and exceptions) They were not primarly designed to be engaging aircraft within the deadzone of their missles, or at close ranges against fast moving aircraft. If a long range SAM is already in a position where they are engaging aircraft at close ranges, they’ve already failed at what they were supposed too be, which is a deterrent. If EW comes into play, the SAMS effectively get forced into a psuedo-shorad role they are already losing and you effectively take away their effective points in lethality.
The Shorads such as the Tor, Tunguska, and Pantsir(s) excel in this role, because they were designed to engage targets at close range within LOS and have weapons that cover all exploitable ranges, so EW wouldn’t matter to these vehicles, it would only make existing vehicles reliant on range (that being their only strong trait) worse.