Why complain about the Pantsir instead of solving the core issue with CAS and game design?

Maybe there’s something I’m missing. But I’m constantly seeing players (especially CAS mains) complain about the new Pantsir but never hear a peep about any other anti-air in the game. As quick as the new SAM systems rose they pretty much fell off. With the very few trying to make it seem like the BUK still has some special place against a pilot who isn’t brain dead.

Why are we blaming a vehicle that effectively does not change how the game is played, only challenging the engagment time of a seasoned pilot in a fast-paced game.

Why are we not addressing the issue of how game design heavily affects the preformance of long range sams, especially map design.

Why are we not addressing helicopters, that can greatly overwhelm SAM systems. I don’t care who you think is on top. The AH-64s are just as guilty of this with over 16IR munitions versus 8 LMURS of the Mi-28, both types being extremely effective. The AH-64s more so being able to greatly overwhelm almost any Anti-Air system in the game. Along with how DIRCM greatly made them even harder to deal with. At this rate, I don’t see a balance for helicopters. I see it as a high risk-high reward vehicle, where you give them just a few-inches they can take more than a mile.

Being able to be spawned with a quick 3-4 kills most times and soon you see them after 6-10 minutes of a match starting.

And this isn’t equating if there’s more than 1 air asset up at a time. I’m sure nobody is oblivious to what happens the second there’s more than 1 air-asset up, all at different angles, firing newly added HARMS, AGMs, setting points on spawns to sling bombs from the get-go since there isn’t really any place for most SAMs to go, being restricted to spawn areas. Simply the definition of overwhelming.

Advocating for the removal of the Pantsir doesn’t solve anything, it will simply just allow CAS to keep doing what they’ve always been doing.

Why did we need HARMS? I hear a lot of people asking for HARMS mainly was because of the Pantsir, not even considering how it will affect other vehicles. But since Nuclear Thunder is here, I don’t see the point in asking this question.

Why do we have suggestions for Electronic Warfare being passed.

Everything about Ground RB and the role CAS plays in it is about getting in and out fast. There’s nothing methodical about it at all. People want to bring up realism, while planes in RB almost have all of that thrown out the window when it comes to G-limits and the working of weapons. As fast as a Pantsir can pull the trigger once you hit LOS is about the same time it takes for a seasoned pilot to fire at a few tanks and pull for cover, there’s virtually no delay in anything.

The 1-Man Army
Nuclear Thunder did a great job of showing how much people want to be a 1 Man Army, rather than use teamwork, which is the entire point of SEAD. The same mindset is applied to pilots in Ground RB.

As much as I’ve messed with the Pantsir, I generally haven’t seen any change in how CAS is played, besides having to pay a lot more attention.

It’s like it’s a power struggle that at the very top is comparing CAS vs CAS , (Kh-38 vs. Mavericks) obligiating for more weaponry while barely taking into consideration SAMs. So much so that the standard is comparing the Pantsir against your average nations CAS. Everyone elses SAM platforms being a complete afterthought.

What direction are we taking, are we going to keep packing modern weaponry into small maps, with soon to be EW? I understand that the dev have been implenting little stuff here and there in Nuclear Thunder when it comes to dealing with SAMS and how they interact with the player and how they defend themselves that make complete sense in that gamemode, but would serve absolutely no purpose in Ground RB and simply serve too make it easier for CAS to operate.

Any constructive feedback that isn’t riding on the lines of Russian bias would be appreciated. Because screaming Russian Bias until the days end isn’t going to fix core game issues.

Because they haven’t.

Its been over a year, and there only “solution” was adding (to no ones surprise) to the soviets the best top tier SACLOS SAM that conveniently doesnt care about the heli issues as a result.

and its a pattern that keeps repeating itself.

Lets not forget that the Pantsir S1 was the ONLY truly effective top tier SAM for 3 years. The only one capable of intercepting weapons reliably, and then, and this is the best part, proceeded to give the soviets the best CAS weapon, BEFORE adding an equal to the Pantsir S1, and it still largely is to this day.

(This is a bit off topic, but seriously, go read the Tornado GR4 Dev Blog post about all the reasons why FnF Brimstones couldnt be added and then, whilst reading it, think about the fact that this is the same update that added the Su-34 with 6x KH-38MTs and was 5 months before anyone got anything capable of doing anything about it. With the Pantsir S1 being the only AA that might have stood a chance at fighting an Su-34)

Its too strong to be 12.7. It should be 13.0. Maybe higher, like 13.3. There is little bar the abolute top tier that can even stand a chance against it.

And the Pantsir S1 shouldnt be 12.0, that is still under BRed too.

Because, shock horror, CAS actually needed buffs in the CAS vs SPAA fight. Though they have denied ARM on aircraft that would have benefitted from it the most. But they are good way to buff aircraft in a specific way. Should have also been quite a fun gameplay element in ARB and ASB too, but they failed miserably to actually do anything with either gamemode.

Maybe because the game consists of more than just GRB?

And heck, you do know that some tanks would also get ECM?

It’s both an SPAA AND CAS problem, I had never played Top Tier until I squadron researched the M1A1 AIM, and it is just horrible. Like, this is supposed to be the “Special” club of War Thunder, and yet it’s just a mosh pit of over powered stuff fighting other OP stuff killing regular stuff. What I’ve noticed is that within seconds of spawning, Panstirs will have missiles launched that can’t be notched, can’t be counter-measured, and can’t be multipathed. On the contrary, helis will just peak up, launch 2-3 missiles at an unassuming target, drop back down, and get a kill. Then you have aircraft, which also destroy tanks within seconds of spawning. It feels to me that all of you guys are so divided on what in specific is wrong with the game, that you don’t realize EVERYTHING is wrong with the game.

1 Like

Sorry I haven’t been clear that No One’s Flying at Half of the BRs

Oh and at the rest of the BRs we still see Tornado gr4 etc xDDD

Will post more.

And I love ADATS. bit off topic but these SPAAs are good if not too good.

THE helicopters. Not Helicopters as a category.

Applies to both A2G and SPAAs. Maybe worse for the spawn sitters.

Main reason being the high SP and lack of rewards for teamwork. Why help others for nothing anyways.

edit, plus the lack of efficient comms and trust. ppl do coop with fwends but never the random team

1 Like

You’re missing the part where USSR already had competitive SPAA with the Pantsir S1 + Buk, and no other nation will get close to the SV-SM

It’s hard to avoid it when this cycle of powercreep was entirely brought on by the Su-25SM3/Kh-38 and it’s completely out of control

wdym you don’t take 1950s Jets against 70’s radar guided SPAA and MANPAD SAMs?