How exacly does the jumbo has more agility?
Sorry but 76 Jumbo >> Panther
Which is why the Panther A/G/F are fine at 6.0 and the 76 Jumbo is fine at 6.3.
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I didnt say panther is better lol
I just said there isnt rly a similarity between the jumbo and a panther
Doesnt dump all its speed in turns, its my one gripe with the panthers. Always feels like im driving through mud where as on the 76mm jumbo im all over the place. Ive played both and enjoyed both but the 76mm is just better due to the slight step in agility combined with the short stab which compensates for the lacking pen.
The panthers at 6.0 get acces to APCR ammo which the Panther D don’t have acces do it.
Panther too but sure
Any arguments about Panthers being too OP at 5.7 are negated by M 51 /T 26E5/T 34 being on BR’s where they don’t belong .
Lol what?
U think m51 is op?
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Panthers A/G and F are fine in 6.0. The only they need is removal his movility nerf, thats all.
I mean its not OP but as much as people oversell how effective HEAT at such low BR is, people undersell its effectivness too.
It might not one shot a King Tiger, but death by thousand cuts is a thing. Ability to deny any heavy armor the ability to just sit back and snipe all day on open maps is somehow not seen as important.
Sweeden has 4.0 with the same pen its nothing special
And pen its all it got
Its bad in every other aspect!
Bad mobility
Bad armor
Bad velocity
Bad post pen
Bad gun handling
Bad reload
Its more of a tank desroyer and in tha case u have alot of tanks with heat
I will take 5.7 tiger over m51 on any day
notice i never denied it or implied otherwise.
as i said
it has its case uses. and yes there are vehicles with HEAT too.
M36B2 has access to HEAT-FS at 5.7. Of course you will be using APHE 90% of the time. But when you get Sands of Sinai against 6.7 germany, being able to lolpen their UFP at ranges over 2km is extremely important.
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Yea but they can also lol pen u and u have bad mobility to get into positions
Yes the pen is nice but it doesnt make the tank good
Its mid at best
hellcat and many others can also be lol penned by King Tiger, but only few can UFP the King Tiger in return.
indeed. just having good pen doesnt mean the tank is good in general. I love E8 but its pen is nothing out of ordinary for its BR.
BUT
again
put M-51 and E8 in the same scenario - firing at heavily armored target at long range - and my money is on M-51.
We shouldnt discount the fact that M-51 can shine in some scenarios just because its bad in others.
?
Yes armor is a big advantge thats another reason why the m51 isnt great
And hellcat and such are light tanks with mobility which the m51 does not have
In fact king tiger has better mobility then it
Also isnt the E8 lower br? And i will take it over the m51 just bcuz the mobility alone
Im sry this is logic is pretty dumb
We looking at the overall tank not a specific cenerio
In that case i can say a tiger 2 is better then leopard if its side on to it
Or any spaa will shred any plane that is going 200kph above it in 50m alt
and m51 even on its strength side like sniping isnt great cuz its low velocity and bad reload
From my expiriance the m51 is a free kill to every one with aphe and 10 hours at the game
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I think theres a misunderstanding.
Im not saying M-51s are good or great; but they are also not useless as people claim.
now its probably my turn to be confused.
are you saying that some tanks cant be better than other tanks in different scenarios? ie. fill some roles such as sniper or brawler better?
like im pretty sure most casemates cant properly brawl due to lack of turret; that fact doesnt make them bad snipers.
Ofc its not useless
Nothing is useless otherwise it will be moved down in br
U can allways do smt
No im saying u cant decide which tank is better by using a specific cenerio when kne shine and one does not
Like the E8 for exmple u said its worse them m51 on range against a heavy target which is debatable and rly depends which heavy but lets go with a king tiger which the E8 cant rly pen frontaly then ofc the m51 will be better but dies it make it a better tank?
Ofc not
And also m51 is a higher br
And even in its own role like taking heavies and snipe it isnt great and i would take like 90% of the other 6.0 over it
if you say so. i know for sure i spawn M36B2 and load HEATFS anytime i face 6.7 germany on open maps when im denied flanking, because even jacksons 90mm gun struggles at range against heavy tanks such as king tigers.
yes, if you get hit its likely it will die, same as E8 and many others.
i dont understand whats the problem here. Im not saying M-51 is better tank overall and i didnt even imply it. I said M-51 is better equiped to handle heavy tanks at range when compared to E8. You simply cant deny that.
indeed it is. If you want, we can forget E8 and go with for example M4/T26 if you want.
Yea make sanse u struggle in a uptier
Also doesnt the jackson have heat?
E8 has better armor and mobility for good position
Yes ofc
Same case better armor even better gun and gun handling and ofc mobiliy which is the biggest con of the m51 imo
My point is exept pen exept heavies it doesnt offer nothing and ever worse then most if not all 6.0