We have a BR system specifically to balance vehicles around their performance. As such, I expect it to be used.
Again, NOWHERE did I claim to want this. I want the Marder to either be improved as its IRL performance allows (namely, changing the stats on it APDS so that it is REALISTIC) or go down in BR.
I expect any vehicle to be comparable in performance to another vehicle in the same role at the same BR. If the BR difference is small (one .3br step) I expect it to still have some advantages, or be a little bit worse at everything.
As in, say, Pz III J1 vs Pz III L - just one BR step increase (2.7 → 3.0), the L is a straight upgrade but it’s not a massive one - the mobility and firepower stay the same, the armor is decently improved.
This is NOT what we see when looking at the Marder 1A3 at 8.0 and the Bradley at 8.3. The Bradley is better everywhere, by a HUGE margin, except reverse speed, gun depression, and lacking the 1st gen thermals - which are trash anyway.
And for the second time in this reply… NOT WHAT I AM ASKING FOR.
I am begging you to READ and UNDERSTAND what is being written.
Hey wouldn’t it be cool if we had some kinda… battle rating system, so that vehicles that can’t fight tanks very well in a TANK GAME would be rated as inferior to other vehicles that are better at fighting tanks?
Gee, wouldn’t that be something?
Great. Move it down then.
Gaijin’s penetration formula hates small subcaliber rounds. It’s best if their values are ignored entirely. According to a guy on reddit who really likes the wiesel and got his hands on penetration info for the Rh202, the APDS is supposed to have the penetration it does now but at 1000m instead of 10m. Sounds a little optimistic but he had the receipts to back it up. I might try finding it later.
This is a weird in game decision Gaijin made. Vehicles don’t spawn in with a round in the chamber on top of a full ammo load, they spawn in missing one round. This is probably based on the IRL doctrine of not loading ammo until you have something to fire at (Which makes little sense in game, since most of the reasons you have to load a non-antitank round don’t exist).
For most tanks, this is a non-issue, since it’s rare to use or even carry a full ammo load. But for certain vehicles with super low ammo counts (on top of ATGM carriers, the Type 60 SPRG springs to mind), it’s much more crippling. It’d be a very welcome buff to a lot of tanks that need it if this were changed, IMO.
The Marders may have limited ATGM capability, but at least they have it. The Wiesel is incapable of engaging the vast majority of what it sees in any capability. All it can do is scout, something it’s very good at, but something that’s criminally underewarded and made irrelevant by map changes.
Also, the Wiesel’s inability to point the gun vertically does hamper it’s SPAA capability to a reasonable degree in comparison, especially on high looping attacks.
Overall, the Wiesel’s a better scout, but a marginaly worse SPAA and much worse at directly engaging tanks.
Also, if they add the HOT mod, it’ll push the Wiesel to a much higher BR. The AMX-13 HOT is 1.7 BR higher than the stock AMX-13, all for some HOT missiles that are borderline unusable in it’s current state. On something as small and agile as a Wiesel, I’d expect 8.7 as a bare minimum. The Marders will still have a place in the 7.7/8.0 lineups.
How about the SP I C? Low pressure 90mm gun, similar hull to the Wiesel as it is based on the Hotchkiss tankette. If added, could fill in that gap nicely - pretty similar to the Eland 90 and that sits at 7.7 with higher top speed and smaller size than this would have.
I’d be more favor of it if it could actually fit at 7.0. Even if we exclude the Marders, Germany has the BMP and DF-105 as solid conventional light tanks for the 7.7/8/0 lineups, plus the Ru-251 as a premium option.
An initial dive into Google shows that there’s some disagreement on the specification of it, but from what they seem to agree on, it might actually fit that low. It’s vulnerable to .50s from all angles, the mobility is good but not exceptional for the tier (Slightly under 20 hp/t, 58 kph top speed), and the gun will be worse than the standard French short 90mm common at the tier (smaller charge, slower velocity, etc). Overall, it should be pretty similar to the C13 in the Italian tree.
This could underpin an interesting 7.0 lineup in the future (I still holdout a somewhat faint hope that the E-50/75 might show up in game at some point).
Sure but the ATGMs were only mounted in defensive positions when the use was anticipated. So a Marder 1 would never have more than 4 ATGMs on it at a time.
There’s 2 variants that could be added, the earlier one (bottom pic) has the AML-90 turret and gun; this was changed out to an enlarged turret (reload time reduction?), but as the french didn’t want to sell just the cannon, it was changed to a worse one from… Switzerland? if memory serves me right.
And yeah, they’re not that impressive, hence why they’d be pretty nice additions - almost certainly worse than the Eland and AML, so 7.0-7.3 material.
Still a german project to create a light tank/armed scout based on the Hotchkiss tankettes they already had. Parts coming from france didn’t change that. The enlarged turret was created due to dissatisfaction with the one sold by the french.
There might be a case to add the initial prototype to France, and the German turreted one to Germany. There’s precendent for it, and since the AML got moved up (For some inexplicable reason, IMO), France also lacks a light tank for their 7.3 lineup. The French version would likely be superior (Depending on what stats the 90mm Mecar gun the German one has gets), so it would probably be 7.3.
Ultimately, Germany doesn’t need both, France needs a new 7.3, and Gaijin just loves it when they can copy paste parts of a model to different lines, saves on development costs. Seems like a decent way to kill a few birds with one stone.
The Mecar isn’t much worse on penetration, it suffers mostly on velocity. If reload speed difference is accounted for, they’d be dead even on performance.
Of course I’d like germany to get both, but france could also use one - with the caveat that apart from being a parts supplier, they weren’t really involved in its development.
That’s not strictly true according to the most complete source I can find. The original vehicle the SP I Cs are based on (The Schützenpanzer (Kurz)) was originally designed and built for the French army by a French company, however due to issues including the French-Indochina war and the later Algerian war, they could never commit to full production.
The Germans then became involved, and (from what I can tell) a slightly altered version of the original design was then produced for the Bundeswehr, though no indication whether that was French or German production. German seems more likely, IMO, but still a French design at the end of the day.
The first SP I C prototype was then developed by France and shown to the Germans (Date uncertain). This is the one pictured above, with the AML-like turret. So this is a French designed chassis with a French designed turret, and never adopted by the Germans. Seems logical it should go to France.
The German variant came from them dismissing the original SP I C prototype due to the cramped nature of the turret. This lead to the redesign with a larger turret and a different gun, a Swiss/Belgian MECAR. There is (apparently) rather limited information about this gun, so we can’t know it’s stats for certain. What we do know is that it’s lower velocity and with a smaller charge than the French D291 gun, the smaller charge likely indicating less penetration, though to what degree is uncertain (Though some sources show it matches the French gun, that seems unlikely due to the weight disparity between the payloads).
There’s too much uncertainty in how this gun would perform for me to know how it would end up comparing to the French version. Reload is always up to Gaijin at the end of the day if it’s not autoloaded, and without knowing what kind of penetration it would have, there’s no way I can be certain where they’d place it. I’d just prefer the French one at 7.3, and the German at 7.0, if possible, for the reasons already stated above.
uhh yeah… fast…
ever played it?
it accelerates like a Tam.
You defo don’t know what the Marder is.
No Marder has stabiliser.
a1- has HVAP with max 57mm pen, 1A3 has APDS with max 66mm pen…
think again. Its merely good for tracks and AA roles.
sucky pen, one in chamber only, 4 reloads max, no fire on the move, no stab…
yeah…
its not a bad vehicle at the right br and in the right hands but dont lie about it bruh
