Why are the Marders at 7.7 and 8.0?

Having a very hard time playing the Marder a1- at 7.7 because of how defensively it has to be played and on top of that the missiles are very slow and your main gun does nothing to the bmps you see, say even if you’re able to get a flank on the enemy, you only have 4 Milans, 50% of the time 1 isn’t enough and 2 are needed, there’s just no killing potential for the marder as a light tank, but for some reason the btr80a is at 7.3 with 80+mm of pen on the side of mbts and is able to kill more light tanks? I don’t think the Milans make much of a difference for the marder because you have so few and they’re extremely situational in terms of when you get to use them, but a btr80a at 7.3 can slaughter most things it flanks with a higher top speed, I’ve gone around seeing what others had to say about the marder and it’s mostly the same feelings about the Milans and the lack of gun, it kinda makes the tank feel a bit out of place, perhaps due to the br? If a dev reads this I’d really love to hear from the side of a btr80a in a deeper dive, but on paper it’s just insanity, and the 8.0 marder 1a3 isn’t much greater yet is 8.0?? (I know it’s because of the thermals, but it’s not too significant considering you only have 66mm max pen on the main guns and the same Milans that were already hard to use at 7.7 or any heavy or medium tank for that matter in a tense situation or from range)

In all, I think the marders were too severely punished and overtiered and should prob be revised, prob be nice to add it to 7.3 and the marder 1a3 take it’s more rightful place at 7.7 instead of its weaker counterpart

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SACLOS ATGMs, laser rangefinder, 20mm autocannon, A1 has HVAP belts, 1A3 has APDS belts, highly mobile, virtually crewless turret, can scout, and can be used as an SPAA in a pinch. The 1A3 is much better with thermals and APDS belts when compared to the A1. The BTR is going to have more penetration because it is a 30mm, but the gun handling and fire rate is trash compared to the Marder’s 20mm. Also, the BTR is wheeled so it has worse performance on softer ground types, can’t turn like the Marders, and the top speed is only 12kph difference between them. The missiles have over 500mm of penetration, plenty to deal with every single heavy tank in game frontally, and it can fire those missiles without putting the crew in danger. The Marder is also the only vehicle that I know with a gun and missiles that can control and aim the missile from the launcher’s sights instead of the gunner’s sights (or barrel sights). While the missile may not 1 shot everything all the time, they are still quite effective and have more pen than most of the HEATFS in game.

In comparison, the Marder is a better overall package than the BTR. The BTR only has the advantage in straight line speed on improved roads and penetration/post pen damage because of the difference in gun size. It is hard to judge what exactly makes an 8.0 an 8.0, but the Marder’s are not horrible vehicles by any means. What I do know it that the A1 shouldn’t be 7.3 because of the multitude of strengths it has.

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ATGM carriers need to get the ability to shoot on the move, without them they’re pretty garbage vehicles, but they’re so handicapped with these restrictions that they’re forced in very defensive and boring playstyles.

It’s pretty obvious the Marders are absolute garbage in their current form.

The A1
image

The A3
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What does the average light vehicle’s statistics look like around that BR?

That’s ignoring the part where your ammo is in there, very easy to damage, and WILL kill you if hit

Regardless, it wouldn’t be anywhere as bad if MILANs performed like they did pre-missile nerf or if it carried more, or even if it could use MILAN 2s.

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Yea, the missile changes they made were pretty awful.

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If the 1A3 were dual axis stabilised I’d fully understand the upscale in br, but being brutally honest, the thermals are only good for spotting, a bit blurry for some reason (im not sure what gen they are), but other than that, the accuracy of guns is nice when it comes to really light things and your occasional gepard and truck maybe idk but its really useless, your only fighting chance is with the atgms which you have to wait at least a second to stop and fire and unless youre less than 200meters from your target that takes another second or more if youre further (god forbid he’s looking at you), ive had these surprise encounters way too many times, thats 2 seconds when most engagements are done by 0.5 seconds (from feeling), I also only ever max 50 kmph on the A1, I don’t have a BTR80A but by logic, the difference should be that the 80A should be around the same or slightly faster if driving in a straight line, the MILANS are finnicky to say the least as well, if you’re already on the flank, theres always a 50% chance it 1 won’t kill his gunner for some reason, and it takes way too long to break barrels due to the HVARs being solid shot and that breaks upon hitting anything remotely hard like the barrel of most if not all tanks, you may as well just J out because you’re dead if that happens. the A3 and A1 are really not too different imo and on paper imo, also the turret IS the largest weak spot of the tank, one shot in the turret base will kill the gunner and commander, so… I dont think the Marder is that bad of a vehicle but I think if it weren’t for the ATGM it’s only a good SPAA, and given the flaws and the limited MILANS, it’s really really underwhelming for the BR…

Like what?

BMP is at 0.9
DF109 is at 1.63
Object 906 is at 1.69
Rooikat at 1.26
T106 is at 1.77
AMX-13-90 is at 2.63
MARS is at 1.46

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basically in everyway better than the A1 and A3s, but I’m gonna give it the benefit of the doubt that that’s because russian light tanks at the BR are already really good, but also its a bit ajar in anyways

Gen 1 thermals are pointless to me, Gen 2 is a massive improvement and Gen 3 is pretty much the same.


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Interesting, thanks.

What are your thoughts on the Bradley at 8.3?

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Try playing other vehicles for perspective.

Or you think similar vehicles are better or op?

Try playing warrior mate.

perspective is everything.

I swear to god, this forum is full of people complaining that any given vehicle is not the best of its br.

Not best of BR? - complain.

give me a couple of days to compare every vehicle against every other vehicles and complain they have differences.

Personally i am pissed that a tetrach is not as good as an abrams.

I absolutely despise the fact that certain vehicles are different from other vehicles, why cant they all just be identical but just look different?

I mean the fact that a t72 is not as good as a t80bvm is just disgusting.

But when i do get the BVM, i expect it to be better than a t72.

It’s all ok when you are killing the inferior vehicle, but when you are using the inferior vehicle “omg we cant be having that, its unfair and broken, please fix”

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It’s objectively a bad vehicle, and as the game continues to require people to research and purchase everything and then force them to play things, it’s valid to complain about it because it just sucks to get stuck on them.
It doesn’t need to be the best, it needs to be competitive.

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Primary weapon is the milan.
Many vehicles use milan.
Many of such are higher BR.
Majority that have milan are higher BR and have a lower rate of fire for the autocannon.

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so we lower the br of the marder to 7.0.

Then when you play other vehicles with milan, you ask why you are at 8.0/8.3 while marder is 7.0.

So we lower the br of those vehicles.

Then marder complains not enough of br difference, so we lower the marder.

Then those in 6.7 complain that they are coming up against multiple milans and marders.

where does it end?

Not everything is supposed to be easy.

I mean i could have an egocentric outlook and expect every vehicle that i use to be amazing whilst disregarding everyone else (because i am not using their vehicle at that specific time - but when i do, i expect the opposite)

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Primary weapon that requires you to be stationary with 530m/s velocity.
What are these many vehicles… the only ones are the Warrior and the Ratel to my knowledge, and neither of them is that good.

And lower RoF on the Warrior sure, but you can also mention the almost double pen on the Warrior with 110mm APDS vs 66mm APDS.

so we lower the br of the marder to 7.0.

Didn’t ask for that.

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so what we gonna say about ratel?

Thats ok at its br and being shit because you aint using it?

Does everything have to be better than its contemporary to be able to be played?

Does every vehicle you use have to be better than everything else for it to be worth playing?

I could go on for days about how 1 vehicle does something better than another vehicle.

Is that not the entire premise of the game/ military vehicle development?

If every vehicle was identical, then what would be the point of having over 1000 vehicles in the game? just have 1 vehicle at every br for every nation with identical stats, i’ll pass.

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so what we gonna say about ratel?

Thats ok at its br and being shit because you aint using it?

You can open up a topic if you want to discuss the Ratel.

Does everything have to be better than its contemporary to be able to be played?

Nope.

Does every vehicle you use have to be better than everything else for it to be worth playing?

Nope.

Is that not the entire premise of the game/ military vehicle development?

In the real world you want all the advantage you can get, but in a game you want to just have balance.