RB74: Swedish designation of AIM-9L
RB71: Swedish designation of Skyflash
RB99: Swedish designation of AIM-120
maybe?
No, that’s your assessment based on the 12.3 BR.
Don’t push your assessment onto me.
@iboopy
Viggen turns 3 degrees per second worse than Phantoms. So no, your claim is wrong.
Viggen was nerfed over half a year ago.
@Stockholm_Blend
Your post was meant for PeaceMaker1306 as his posts were the only ones that said EJ Kai equals.
All I stated was that 9Ls make the 9L + Skyflash loadout 12.3, which is a fact. Saying otherwise is demanding that F-14A, EJ Kai, etc moves to 12.0.
And of course, F-4J to 11.7.
AIM-9Ls + Skyflash/AIM-7F is more equal to each other than AIM-9Ls are to AIM-9Hs. with radar missiles staying equal.
We already have JA37D which uses both AIM-9L and Skyflash
and We also have Tornado ADV which uses AIM-9L and Skyflash SuperTEMP
on 12.0BR.
Sending F-4J(UK) with AIM-9L to 12.3 on current compression is nothing but a bullshit take.
Unless further decompression shows up and makes the gap between F-4J and F-4EJ Kai wider
(If decompression comes out, then Tornado ADV w/o AIM-120 might be suited perfectly on 12.3)
No?
In this topic, nobody said that
- F-14A, F-4EJ Kai should be 12.0
- F-4J USN should be 11.7.
We were just saying that F-4J(UK) might be 11.7 thanks to mediocre takes by Gaijin.
The JA-37D is slower, worse energy retention [which means worse turning], and worse loadout.
We know that Tornado ADV is under-BR’d.
The only way F-4JUK gets AIM-9Ls and stays 12.0 is if almost all 12.0s move to 11.7, AKA BR compression.
Saying F-4JUK with 9Ls should be 12.0 is saying that F-4J should be 11.7, they are the same statement unless hypocrisy is occurring.
The difference between 9Ls and 9Gs is significantly larger than the difference between Skyflash and AIM-7F. You can read it in the datamine or experience it for yourself, either or.
Viggen is also faster, has a tighter turn circle (although with a worse turn rate), and a much better radar which works wonders to find unsuspecting people below you to send sneaky all aspect aim9L from above.
Any 12.0+ phantom can’t be properly balanced because of BR compression.
Let’s fix the issue from the root.
Viggen accelerates slower, has a worse turning circle due to the lower energy retention.
Viggen has a low-speed turn rate of <10 degrees per second vs the 14 of Phantom.
Also the ONLY compression 12.0 Phantoms face are the OP 13.0s: Su-27, F-15, etc.
The odd F-16 is easy enough to deal with cause you either radar missile it or bait it for your team mate that’s in their own F-16/Mig-29/Mirage 2000.
Accelerates slower but is much faster, has a worse sustained turn rate but a much tighter turn radius. These are different things, I thought you knew.
Faster means higher top speed.
Tighter turn radius means it can turn inside the phantom and possibly do counter 2C (rate fighting) maneuvers against it.
So you agree. High tiers desperately need decompression to properly balance all those jets without screwing them in the process.
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So… you are claiming that the British should suffer with their phantom because Americans play badly with their F-16??
Nonsense, my friend. just nonsense.
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Except for radar performance, Turn performance/overall ability in a dogfight and CM count.
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All Phantoms turn better than Viggens.
Pulling AOA is not turning better, that’s airbraking better.
As for radar performance, you’re not using skyflashes in the rear aspect.
@Stockholm_Blend
Glad you agree your post’s statement is nonsense. Hypothetical? Strawman? IDK, either way it’s indeed nonsense.
Phantoms are 12.0, F-16s are not.
Phantoms are suffering in the same way F-16s are suffering from 13.7s.
You haven’t changed anything. right?
Keeps thinking that you are ‘ALWAYS’ right
but everyone else is always wrong and keeping blatant lies. init?
Seems I had enough of your point-blurring.
it is a fact that F-4J(UK) is acting way worse than either F-4J/S from USN or F-4K/M from Britain.
British just pay the same 70$ for worse F-4S in the same freakin BR.
I just wonder when F-4J(UK) goes 12.3 with no upgrades while F-4S gets buff to 11.7.
I would not dare to try and dogfight a Viggen in the Phantom. Especially one like the FGR2/FG1 which are heavier due to the Spey engines and so turn worse. Unless I was bingo fuel and then I would not be looking to fight at all, instead to RTB.
Fact, Viggen D has the better radar, it is far more capable, for both BVR and for general gameplay. the PDV is a pain to use in Sim.
They are woefully under-powered compared to what they face and would be fine at 11.7 with their current loadouts
They are best for PDV hit and run attacks, but MP limits this greatly. Compared to many at the same BR, they are underpowered in the IR missile department. They stand no chance in a dogfight vs most 12.3+ aircraft and will loose to many 12.0.
Anything can kill anything, given the right circumstances. I could kill a Typhoon with a Gladiator. it does not mean they should be the same BR or even seeing each other. A well played… nearly anything the FGR2/FG1 see in either ARB or ASB can quite happily fight them without issue.
I still believe there are issues regarding PDV + Skyflash attacks and I know im not alone in that opinion. But empirical testing is required
Their loadouts are not that exceptional and can be essentially found in lower aircraft like the F-4E at 11.3. So 11.7 for the loadout would not be unreasonabe. It may have PD radar and if MP was not a thing, this might have greater relevance, but you have far more powerful radars at 12.0 like on the Viggen D and Tornado F3 and you have MTI at the very least on the Mig-23MLD at 11.7 as well.
I do not beleive the FGR2 would be overpowered with 9Ls at 12.0 given the pressence of aircraft like the Mig-23MLD at 11.7, Mirage F1, Viggen D and Tornado F3 at 12.0. Especially with how much 9Ls are underperforming currently.
FGR2 with 4x Aim-9Ls is not in way, shape or form equal to aircraft like the Mirage 2Ks at 12.3 or F-16/Mig-29s at 12.7. To consider them so is rather insane.
Nor do I beleive there would be any issue in the FG1 moving to 11.7 with its current loadout. Given the pressence of the F-4E and Mig-23MLD at their respective BRs.
The beauty in having 2 identical aircraft, is that it can be tested and no major harm will be done.
I would also comment on the fact that in Sim, both the FGR2 and FG1 are 11.3 and are far from OP. In fact they are rather under-powered compared to the Mig-23MLD they face and are direct counter for the Mig-23ML and Mig-23MLA also found at 11.3. Given how closesly and evenly matched they are in Sim. leads me to beleive they should be the same BR in ARB as well.
F-4J(UK) is a joke especially to remain at 12.0 (in-pertciular in SIm where it is actually 0.7 BR higher than the FGR2/FG1) and needs either buffs or BR drop.
As for the other phantoms currently above 12.0. I would argue they have either other attributes that justify them being higher, or that htey are currently over BRed. But I cannot comment on each well enough to say either way.
Whilst the ultimate soltuion should be a decompress. The likelyhood of another is extremely low. So instead we must work with the current compression. FGR2 should not be seeing 12.7s let alone any 13.0. But that cannot be avoided entirely. But it could be mitigated with the right buffs or a slight BR drop
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Yeaah…
With some hyperbolical take, on weaponry. F-4J(UK)/F-4K/F-4M are just Kurnass(IDF F-4E) with PDV radar XD
four AIM-9G with four AIM-7E-2.
With slightly worse Base bombing capability on ARB thanks to no Napalm.
It must’ve been Gaijin’s mistake that they think F-4J(UK) also has AN/ALR-45 RWR, VTAS HMS, and 6 AIM-7F.
Because Gaijin keeps semi-ahistorical buff to some jets. F-5C(USAF)'s infamous AN/ALE-38 CM pod can be an example.
So… Maybe Gaijin’s perception has been altered and mistaken badly.
I guarantee that Gaijin’s Balancing department believes F-4J(UK) is an exact copy of F-4J(USN).
Yeah, its been reported pretty much since it was added 2+ yeras ago as far as I am aware. Every attempt i’ve made to DM a CM on this matter has thus far been ghosted. It should at best be considered equal to the FGR2/FG1 but sit so much higher in Sim for “reasons”
As for ARB. I have no idea what they are looking at. Though as a general rule of thumb. US pilots tend to be… rather green. Whilst anyone slugging through Britain (especially on the FGR2/FG1) are more experienced.
This really sucks. Especially as the FGR2/FG1 could get napalm as well.
Britain reserved the rights to use Napalm but didnt actively maintain any stocks or something to that affect. There is no reason why the FGR2 couldnt be equipped with Napalm at any time and I think the piloits were even trained in its use. It just was never equipped. But Given Gaijins rules regarding “If X can carry it, then all can carry it” this should not be a major issue
The Buc S2 could carry napalm too and was in the manual (has been reported) so that should mean the FG1 as well would have access
But yeah, on the pure economy effeciency side of things. The F-4S and F4J (US) should be leaving the FGR2/FG1/JUNK far behind.
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We all know that British isn’t okay to stick with Gaijin’s common rule and will be a major issue. :/
F-5C(USAF) received their ridiculous magical CM pod because ROCAF F-5A can carry it.
JAS39C SAAF received their AIM-9L/M because the rest of JAS39C can.
(But at the same time, no AIM-120 even with the same rule and same theory)
but no AIM-7F or napalm for F-4J(UK) because they are British lol
Tired of all these silly double standards…
Yeah. Gaijin’s pick and mix is rather annoying. Technically only Britain should have Brimstones or Paveway IVs on the current set of Typhoons as well.
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Great theory. Just want to correct you on the JAS39C SAAF. Gaijin does not want to add the A-Darter for balance reasons I would assume. there is no way a gripen with fox3s can be 13.3, so its just stuck being the worst of the lot. Rather normal for UK aircraft to be worse than other nations counterparts, until the typhoon of course.
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If we look on the bright side of our branches…
Not all British planes are awful compared to every counterparts.
At least Our Lancaster is better than Frenches, and Our Wellington does better than Germans :/
Thanks to the Blockbuster bombs…
@Stockholm_Blend
Dude, what is with your post?
Everyone in this topic has been sincere… why would your post imply otherwise?
Naaah…
I think you are here to disagree ‘for disagreeing itself’
I am trying to be sincere as best I can but all you are doing here is not that much helpful.
No offence.
Yes. AIM-9L on F-4J(UK) or F-4K/M might be a problem. thanks to silly compression problems with Gaijin’s laziness.
But it wouldn’t be as big as you claimed.
Difference between [F-4J(UK) with AIM-9L on 12.3] and F-4EJ Kai will be far bigger than
difference between [F-4J(UK) on 12.0] and F-4J(USN) or JA37D Viggen.
and nobody but you are saying that
‘Giving British Phantoms AIM-9L and keeping BR is the same theory that Sending F-4J into 11.7 and F-14A Early to 12.0, which means compression.’
We are saying that British Phantom in its current status underperforms both Air-to-Air and economy efficiency.
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