penetration yeah, Thermals i’d doubt. Depends on which version off the 122. Better thermals than the A, B versions. But C and D most likely is on the same level if not better.
Ah sorry, did not see this. Check my other comment by the way that i sent. I mean i can’t really tell you it without breaking a ‘‘silence’’ agreement. So i won’t really say everything i do know but. You’re right about the B versions and A versions having less armor than the 2a7 most likely. However i’d argue that newer models has new composite considering my country never tells the complete truth of what they do to their vehicles, aircraft etc. So in the end all we can do is well. ‘‘Guess.’’ and make assumptions. You could be right. I could be right.
Wish i could say that i am right or wrong but that would go against a few rules in the book. And yes the Swedish solution was a thing. Once more there are unclassified or whatever you call it on english. Documents / pictures off said values and the names clearly state. ‘‘Swedish solution.’’ and. ‘‘Svenskt Skydd.’’ etc. Don’t know what else to tell you but i don’t really wanna argue much more so please excuse me. In the end this all comes down to a matter off opinions, not knowledge since as stated. We don’t know a 100% off the truth and if we do we can’t tell each other.
I have the swedish trial documents, the stuff of the kvt ,tvm min, tvm max. Out of tankograd.
There are all german developments.
They only call it swedish solution because its combinatipn package they choosed
1 Like
Gaijin will mess up anything German or introduce the worst variant possible if they can… If I recall correctly from another poster on here they stated that the 2A7v’s armor is under-performing in several areas compared to the “newest” german armor scheme from the Swedish testing that was before the 2A7V entered production a decades later
I would say yes but i did get an confirmation from my Officer today about said question. The composite on its own is Swedish. He added that it would not make sense for Sweden with a military industry which has already experimented vastly with composite, invested a lot into the research to only end up stopping completely. This is something the public should know, does know if they look extensively into Sweden’s military history since the cold war.
He also mentioned it’s the same deal with Jets. How the government recently had an vote on continuing Swedish construction of jet fighters instead off importing fighters from other countries. The major reason for this was cause the country has already invested mountains off money into said programs, research for years and the industry that is capable of making it by itself.
Other than that i do not know what to tell you. But i’ll agree. The 2a7 does have better armor than the A, B variant. Possibly the C variant of the 122 aswell but the D variant i am very unsure off as it is up-to-date. Sorry if i misunderstand something or write something that has nothing to do with said conversation. Considering English isn’t my first language, the fact i am Swedish. A Swedish man who serves in the army.
and thats where your buddy is wrong. The composite was originaly from IBD technologys whgich was then taken over by rheinmetall and further developed.
What sweden did is license it and is producing in in sweden nothing more
yeah and we can give you the complete prove that its not the case, its german what sweden is using
I’m afraid that’s not right, any testing done in protection analysis shows you that they spall about the same.
The STRV122 only has armor; other than that, it’s one of the most mid-tanks in the game. And let’s not forget the 2A5, A6, and PSO. 4 German leopards VS 3 STRVs. This would be a completely different conversation if all Germany had was the 2A7, but those additional leopards are more than enough spawns to make them Equal. And the 2A7 is the STRV’s armor, coupled with the pen of a 2A6 and gen 3 thermals. Pretty much an STRV without all of the drawbacks that come with an STRV.
protection analysis hardly works right half the time.
They do in fact spall better
the what now? yeah your argument is completly useless and you dont see how the game plays right now.
Anyone gonna fight you there. The strv122s are the strongest tanks. There literaly were excluded from the e sport events cause they are to dominant
all german leopards have worse armor then the strv ones there is no denying that. strv are better by a huge margin
shall i realy dig out gajins own armor table for you to see the difference? you have absolutly no idea about the game.
Jesus that is bad takes if i ever saw some.
@_Renzo get yourself this the strv122 is the most mid tank in the game xD
Not quite, i’m not gonna argue further cause arguing about an officer who worked on and during the trials is somewhat pointless but. I’ll show this and try to translate it.
- ‘‘på FFK i Karlsborg mot samtliga stridsvagnar alternativt försedda med ett svenskutvecklat skydd från Åkers Krutbruk och den tyska samarbetspartnern IBD (Ingenieurbüro Deisenroth). Då vi inte fick tillräckligt med underlag från leverantören lät vi bygga delskrov efter eget huvud för att kunna utföra skjutprovning mot de olika stridsvagnarna med det svenskutvecklade skyddet - något som särskilt förvånade fransmännen… Detta var ett ballistiskt skydd som i många attityder ökade skyddsnivån med 50-100% på framförallt den franska, men även den amerikanska stridsvagnen (något som en fyrstjärnig amerikansk general förvånat fick klart för sig vid en genomgång). Stridsvagnarnas signaturer inom olika våglängdsområden blev också kartlagda – något som bland annat FOA var behjälpliga med.’’
Translated = ''at FFK in Karlsborg against all tanks alternatively equipped with a Swedish-developed protection from Åkers Krutbruk and the German partner IBD (Ingenieurbüro Deisenroth). As we don’t get enough information from the supplier, we had partial hulls custom built in order to be able to carry out firing tests against the various tanks with the Swedish-developed protection - something that particularly surprised the French…
This was a ballistic protection that in many attitudes increased the level of protection by 50-100% on above all the French, but also the American tank (something that a first star American general was surprised to realize during a briefing). The tanks’ signatures in different wavelength ranges were also mapped - something that FOA, among others, was helpful with.‘’
if you actualy read the link i psoted
Our sources are literaly from the design leaders of all leopard projects including the strv122s
Honestly i would still doubt it. I have my reasons, you have your reasons. We don’t seem to be able to agree on said argument so lets end it there. Cause we will only go on and on and on if we don’t stop here. But if you wish to know more, want me to go through the effort i could ask an higher upp for information i’m allowed to talk about.
@Alexanderussss could u get on with your answer that is null and void?
i already prepared the official modern mbt armor chart by gajin to show how ridiculous your claims are
Wrong.
If you take away the armor of a 122, it is in fact mid. One of the lowest penetration values at toptier, a pretty slow reload, average mobility, and the worst thermals. Really, if you know how to aim for weakspots the entire advantage of a 122 disappears since it’s entire advantage relies on you shooting it’s armor.
A STRV122 without it’s additional armor is pretty much a 2A5 or a 2A6, and didn’t you just claim that’s “the strongest tanks”? How can you claim even without the additional armor it’s the strongest tank, yet point at the additional armor being something that makes it better by a huge margin? Quite hypocritical.
Look, the 2A7’s armor is lacking some armor that the STRV122 has. However, that makes no real difference. It can still stop all the rounds the STRV122 can. Try it out for yourself. It sits at around 650-700mm of protection against APFSDS.
The point is, you are overvaluing the additional armor of the STRV122. It’s not some tank sent from heaven that has 1000mm of armor everywhere and can quite easily be defeated by, shooting at a weak spot. And it’s not as good as a 2A7.
yeah invalid you have no idea about the game
Sweden has 589
China has 577
Russia has 580
Japan 615
Israel has 611
Leclercs 575
italy ariete 623
Usa has 629
germany has 652
typical british challenger 564
OH nooo poor sweden has the 5th worst penetration.
You have no idea what u talking about
with a round which can easily one shot tanks irrelevant
leoaprds have some of the best mobility genius
strv122s have a massive armor advantage, they get better internal armor as well
look trough all armor values if you wanna, official gajin source
i am not when the strv122s have nearly double of everyone else xD
Penetration differences above 580-590mm are pretty much negligible. Above 580mm pen you mostly aim against the same weakspots.
The good enough firepower, average mobility, incredible armor and great survivability make it miles better than any other tank in game, together with the 2A7s.
Like everyone who has played either should know that the 122s/2A7s are god tier MBTs and ridiculously easy to play. Any respectible player can play these these MBTs with only 2 braincells and still achieve a 1.5-2.0+ K/D.
The gap between the 122s/2A7s and other MBTs like the Abrams/Challenger/Merkava/Leclerc/T-80/T-90/Ariete/ZTZ etc is just that big.
Still don’t understand why 20 years old Strv’s, with licensed german armor packs, have better armor than up to date Leopard 2A7V’s… The latter ones have even more armor mass and trades it for lower top speed.
It make no sense. No sense. Why is 20-25 yo german tech on Strv’s better than recent german armor sandwiches on 2A7V’s ?
Better armor with less mass for higher top speeds? And all that already 20 years ago?
So for it to be mid, it has to be stripped of all of its armor i.e basically making it a 2A5? Talk about mental gymanstics. Strv 122 comes with that armor pre-installed, so from the get-go it needs to be hit 2 or 3 times before that armor gives in, but that’s 2 or 3 times it can get away with a shot from the most powerful APFSDS, whereas 2A5 or 2A6 will just die with the first hit.
It can still stop all the rounds the STRV122 can.
It cannot:
2A7Vs arc protection is pretty inferior to Strv 122s. It also has more weakpoints, a more exposed turret ring, its mantlet is also a bit worse.
uh that’s like the definition of being average, 5 countries has better pen with 4 having worse? what are you trying to prove?
there’s so many leopards in the game, that you’ll either face the same mobility as you, or better like a french or Japanese tank. With only Brittain, USA, being worse and Russia & China falling behind with reverse speed only… that’s once again pretty much the definition of being average?
Ironic how on multiple ones it says 5-10 mm of additional armor LMFAO. As I said, slightly more armor. But those values still show no real difference.
Exactly! Really, everything except the armor is good enough or average in a STRV. They are extremely easy to play, however I do not believe they should be grouped with 2A7’s just thanks to the 2A7 improving in many of the areas where the 122 is just good enough or average. And the armor is really only up to who your facing, if he knows weak spots your improvements are pretty much nullified. The benefits can’t be exploited by a 122 player as a 2A7 player can use his, making the 2A7 way better. My opinion though.
And I’m not denying the 122 is leagues ahead of the other tanks such as the Abrams, just arguing for it not being as good as a 2A7.
IBD showed off a Leopard 2 TVM mod with the “finished armor” before the trials even concluded, and nearly every single book on the topic states Leopard 2A5 (TVM mod) and Strv 122 use the exact same armor which has been derived/copied from the TVM mod.
Two, we have evidence that the “German solution” was a completely different vehicle (Leopard 2 KVT/IVT) to the “Swedish solution” (Leopard 2 TVM):
- Better armor
- Better mobility (lighter)
- Better post-penetration performance
Vs.
- Better firewpower
- Better optics
I have both tanks, and 122s are quite frankly easier to use in confined spaces because their armor is a bit more forgiving, while you are a Sweden one-trick-pony who has never played Germany outside of their premiums. How do you know 122 is worse than the 2A7V, again? You don’t even have the 2A7V.
Heck, you saying 122s are mid is a joke in on itself, 122s, bar the Leopard 2A7s, are cream of the top MBTs with nothing else even coming close.
Nation mains like you are the reason why this game is as bad as it is.
1 Like