Fire Arc was awesome in low BRs, not low low, but half BRs… Don’t need laser rangefinders to function on that map, just need to be pushing as a group and covering each other.
I didn’t lie to you, and you’re ignoring the ‘reveal ignored post’ that you can easily check and see when you actually pay attention.
Please, learn to use the forum before trying to enclose yourself in an echo chamber, much the same as your want to paint me out as ‘lying’ to you, because it makes it all the more easy to IGNORE the point.
Why? Why is that “what sniping should be”?
I mean, objectively that isn’t what the term means. And if you like doing what you describe, hiding behind buildings and shooting under bridges, have at it. But I’m not clear on why you think that your preferred play style is “right” and my preferred style is “wrong”.
I’m the OP. I don’t recall every having been in a thread with you before.
They’re referring to the link they were handed, which is my thread, and proclaiming I lied to them when they couldn’t handle an opposing opinion coupled with hypotheticals based on experiences and knowledge that didn’t fit with what they were trying to express…
I believe he’s rather proven that point.
I explained several times already above: because one person holding down the entire map is not balanced well for a team game with 16 people. If you want to lock down the entire map with snipers, you should need like 4, 5, 6 snipers. A significant investment of team members. Paying a price for that in other roles being understaffed. Multiple narrow corridors accomplishes that.
It’s just a bad team game if one person can basically win the game for the team, especially without even any crazy series of good decisions and situational awareness and so on, but simply sitting there like a toad on a log in one spot pointing and clicking.
objectively that isn’t what the term means.
-
yes it is: “Snipe, verb. shoot at someone from a hiding place, especially accurately and at long range.” ← nothing about “while being able to see an entire valley from your position”. Narrow corridors is still definitely sniping.
-
The game doesn’t actually LABEL any tank as a “sniper tank” in the first place, so why would it even matter what the word meant in the dictionary, when gaijin doesn’t advertise that phrase?
I’m the OP. I don’t recall every having been in a thread with you before.
He linked me to another thread. The OP of THAT thread.
I didn’t lie to you in the slightest, you make out that I lied because you couldn’t address the point that was posed to you and ignored out of frustration that you couldn’t make the argument.
Which is very much at odds with how you defined it in your last post:
Please do not insult us by claiming this is the same thing.
Strawman argument, no one has advocated this.
What we want is them to fix the actual problems without being lazy and just blasting 100 foot high rock walls in front of every bit of high ground and thereby ruining the map while also making it look dumb as well.
I just finished a match in Maginot. One of the few maps left with good sniping. Always love the duels that break out across the two hills covering C. Very ballanced, each side has equal capability. Absolutely love those matches.
Are you saying that should be removed?
Because I started the thread using the term “sniping” and you told us “what sniping should be” which was something that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike sniping.
In any event, there are many vehicles in the game, like much of the British cold-war range and basically every AT and missile tank, which are designed specifically to snipe. Removing the sniping spots basically makes them useless.
There are many other types of vehicles as well. For instance, the AML-90 and AUBL are absolutely wonderful vehicles for driving around quickly and nailing your targets on the sides and abaft. And that’s awesome if that’s what you’re into.
But I’m not, and the heavy handed “solutions” to some problematic maps is ruining the vehicles I love the most and the response is invariably “use some other vehicle” or that that style of play is “scummy”.
Yes, that looks across half the map… including some transition areas from and to the areas of the map it doesn’t see directly.
Strawman argument, no one has advocated this.
Anyone complaining about overwatch positions that see the entire map being removed, i.e. the whole topic of the thread, advocates this. Otherwise they wouldn’t be complaining.
Are you saying that should be removed?
I don’t know which hill you’re referring to, but if it ONLY covers C, not 2-3 caps and a bunch of land in between, and has an equal hill, then no. That would be a narrow corridor and more of a “laned” map where you go to that area for that type of tank, but others are needed for the rest. That’s fine. I already said maps with distinct types of terrain in different lanes are good. That’s also not what almost any removed sniping position was like, though.
Because I started the thread using the term “sniping” and you told us “what sniping should be”
Yes, and it’s fine for discussion, but since it’s not actually used in game, getting too hung up on the precise definition is pointless. War Thunder doesn’t guarantee ANY sniping being part of the game to begin with.
Removing the sniping spots basically makes them useless.
I agree. Good thing they didn’t remove all sniping spots, then, huh? Good thing they only removed OP, broad, sweeping, map-wide overwatch sniping spots, not all sniping spots.
1 Like
They could’ve rather placed more obstacles around the map, nerfing said spot(s) enough so they aren’t OP but would be still perfectly usable.
Sadly, they’ve gone for another approach to “fixing” this, and in my opinion it’s kind of a “half assed” job.
As I said above, instead of completely blocking off sniper spots from maps like Middle East or 38th Parallel, they simply could’ve added more concealment to the other side(s), so people can much easier move from spawn to near-cap areas, but I guess that was too hard for them to do.
Instead of improving the map layouts in general, they are going for an easy way out, butchering the maps like each and every vehicle in the game is a capable brawler.
What’s even worse, they are not just removing sniping spots, they are removing flanking routes as well.
They’ve flattened area around A on American Desert and on Maginot Line they’ve made the route behind ridge near C inaccessible, while both of those routes being pretty easy to counter early on.
It seems like they are removing “skill check” spots/flanks since quite honestly, loads of people won’t bother with stuff outside of holding W and pressing LMB, so people like that will get frustrated easily at “muh OP routes/spots” and will cry profusely.
I can’t recall how many times I’ve actually used my fast vehicles as intended and flanked behind C on Maginot Line, using that ridge I mentioned above. (works from both sides as well)
Guess what, no one even noticed me there since they are simply too inexperienced to know someone can get there, but honestly, that’s not my problem, so after they get absolutely farmed from the flank a couple of times, they should learn how to prevent that from happening again.
It goes both ways, your ability to look at half of the map means half of the map can look at you as well.
This means you will be exposed to many different angles at the same time, which isn’t good in any case.
1 Like
The entire issue summarised in one nice sentence.
1 Like
What’s even worse is the fact people actually support these changes that totally delete the sniping spot(s) out of the map, while providing no new alternatives.
We have more than enough pure CQC maps out there, Gaijin should stop trying to make every map like that, it’s stupid.
2 Likes
It seems that the majority loves these changes. Gaijin isn’t responding to the concerns that people who prefer strategic gameplay have. It’s a clear direction. Time to move on I’m afraid. It’s been a decent few years though.
2 Likes
When the CDK comes back to being up to date, there should be some serious changes to be real…
There was a post earlier about a portion of things becoming open source, which could lead to some good new projects to work with the game itself.
Half the maps are being removed at this rate.
4 Likes
Flanker, Flanker, NO FLANKING!
3 Likes
Oh my god thats abysmal wtf.
Why does gaijin hate flanking
5 Likes
They’re giving the masses what they want. We have a whole new generation of players in this 11 year old game, who have grown up with participation certificates and hand holding. Do you think they’re going to tolerate any form of complexity of gameplay?
To use all the functions of Warthunder requires reading. As if!
I expect that soon the maps will be surrounded by a slowly shrinking circle.
2 Likes
I think it is a deliberate move to retain more players. The War Thunder new player experience starts with simple, WASD+Mouse controls on small maps with tanks that shoot really fast so mistakes can be corrected quickly. It takes multiple BR’s of progression before players even encounter other basic controls and concepts like spotting, using smoke launchers, and choosing shell types. In total, the trip from reserve to 6.7 (approx the end of WW2), takes about as much time as most people put into a normal game. By then, they have still not learned even half of the controls and mechanics of the game and most of their vehicles play nothing like the higher BR’s does. So when someone who’s used to playing the entire map, flanking, and using the best cover possible plays, it’s like trying to win Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000 while your opponent is playing Ace Combat Zero. There is a year’s worth of lessons the new player was never taught that they have to fumble through while it comes second nature to vets. So instead of creating teaching materials or standardizing their controls so they’re all ready and working from rookie’s first day, they’re simplifying everything.
There is an astonishing percentage of players I see in every game who clearly never look at the map. 19 tanks all going to the same objective with zero flankers on a 3 objective map? -They will be the 20th. 4 people died at the same corner and a ping/spotter mark clearly shows a tank off in the distance that’s directly in line of sight of that spot? -Better make it 5.
No one’s teaching them how to play, it’s not even clear they want to know how to play, and half the time they skip ahead using premiums to deliberately reduce the amount of practice they have before getting to more advanced parts of the game. This is kind of the only answer Gaijin has unless you want to please the nerdy minority at risk of losing the normie majority.
5 Likes
At the cost of experienced players.
Indeed. It’s the newer generation unfortunately.
This is exactly the issue. I have engaged with many in the forums, Reddit, etc. They literally do not want to learn how to play or use all the tools provided.
I just had a game on Stalingrad, which has been shrunk yet again. I just quit at the start of games now. I have enough nations to not be impacted by crew lock. I wonder if their stats pick that up.
2 Likes