I was tempted to talk about the Chinese tanks, they aren’t amazing, and for some reason that gets glossed over due to them being Eastern designs and having the carryover reputation from when Russia was insane around 2020-2022.
I still think that them having some forwards mobility makes them slightly preferable to the Challenger 2s though, as the increased turret protection on the Challies doesn’t do much of anything then the entire hull is a weak spot and you still have the universal breech one.
5 second reload has been spread across most tanks.
I like the Leclerc, but as an MBT (which it should be, armour should be at least equal to an abrams, with some sources pointing to better) it is shit. The mobility is good compared to something like a chally or leo (depending on version) but feels worse than Abrams, which has notably better armour, round, and a relatively safe way to approach a threat. The mobility for Leclerc is underperforming almost as bad as the armour.
Challengers feel a bit better to engage at range on long range maps, and are in my experience much more survivable than Leclerc. Which means you can occasionally push someone aware of you, unlike Leclerc. If Leclerc had all its bells and whistles (or SHARD) then it would be great. But it doesn’t, and it’s not stellar in most the environments it gets shoved into. Similar to chally.
China will grow larger!
But we should know many players, especially new players who attracted by modern tanks, would pay more attention to what they see on news and websites. They care more about “I want play X vehecle” rather than “I want try more kinds of vehicle from different ages and countries”.
Besides is T-69 II G(aka 69-IIG on Chinese client) worth to play now? I’m using T 69 II G, 69-IIA, Object 122, Z-11 and H-5 as my grinding preset now
It is similar to the T-62M-1 in my USSR 9.0 line-up, in that they’re good tanks but they’re only there to be used in emergency situations when I’ve lost the main tanks of the line-up and the match calls for more spawns for the team to get over the line.
Though, if you haven’t already completed the Chinese tree, then the T-69 II and WMA make a great premium combo, that’s for sure. I know if I was given the choice to grind out China using Al-Khalid vs T-69 II and WMA, I’d choose the latter. China has a good time at 9.0.
I think it goes deeper than that. There has been a ‘Made in China’ stigma for many years now. China also has its own geopolitical controversies in the South China Sea and elsewhere. However, these people bringing geopolitics into this game never actually realise their own biases towards these topics. Nor do they remember that this is a computer game and not an exercise in nationalism. I absolutely cannot stand how Israel has conducted itself in recent times, but I don’t let that stop me from enjoying the Ayit and other Israeli vehicles I enjoy. I cannot stand that USA invaded Iraq on falsehoods (muh WMDss), and then locked up and tortured people without trial, and then fled Afghanistan with their tail between their legs in 2021 - but I’m not going to let that stop me from enjoying the US tech-tree and US vehicles. People need to come to their senses on these topics. Thankfully, those people that can’t come to their senses are easily found out by them typically only playing a single Western nation while continuously hating on the USSR/Chinese tech-tree despite never actually using them.
Oh, and let us not forget that guy who sabotaged the Chinese tech-tree for years after its addition:
There are so few people using this forum, and there are only 175 people here with more than 1,000 players participating in the local survey of the Chinese community. I believe that even in other countries, the number of people attending will be greater than in this place.
I can’t think of 1 way the Leclerc beats out the Abrams, now if you want to argue the autoloader is a benefit that’s fine, but I think it’s a downgrade seeing as how it’s now a damageable component and reduces survivability by reducing crew count to 3.
There may have been a misunderstanding, When I say Russia was insane in 2020-2022, I mean in game (in terms of that being the period when they were dominant across all modes), this is in no way a political comment and I will continue to keep any of those opinions to myself, as you said, this game and forum is about a video game in which vehicles beat each other up at unrealistically close ranges.
Oh, that is refreshing. You’re referring to the T-80BVM hoards. However, if you study the forum - many in this community think that dominance continues, the cries of Russian-bias never left. The cries have just shifted more towards CAS and SPAA, for example:
I don’t know why people hate on the vt4a1. It might not look great on the protection analysis but in actual matches it eats plenty of rounds, the gun is good, the aps shoots down heat, atgms, dumb rockets, bombs, basically anything slower than apfsds. It’s also got really good mobility, it’s not as fast as the ztz99a/wz1001 which makes it feel slow but when you actually race against other tanks it’s got basically identical mobility to a leclerc.
Hilarious that before the most recent conflict a tank with a rifled barrel had the longest recorded tank kill. With a dart that was spinning so fast and dangerously out of control it was a miracle it hit…
Problem with the rifled/smoothbore argument is they exaggerate the negative effects.
Smoothbore is seen as the sniper rifle/so precise and the rifled barrle is the primitive flintlock musket.
That was my point, yes, and I added onto that by mentioning that many carry that belief over to Chinese tanks, hence why you don’t see many people think of the ZTZ-99 and VT-4s as “bad”, when they are fighting with the Chally 2s for that worst spot.
I voted VT-4, but I don’t really believe it is worse than the worst Chally 2 in this game from a gameplay stand point. More a protest that they’ve botched the specs on the VT-4 and it should actually be better than it is in-game. Chally 2 is mediocre IRL, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it making this list. Having a tank be added to the end of a tree with specs that make no sense for what it should be is always getting my vote. And it is why many people in the Chinese community are very frustrated - the tree has been sabotaged multiple times since its inclusion and they probably suspect that’s what is happening here. Though, I’m obviously no Chally 2 expert, so maybe they face a similar issue (apart from missing spall liners) about the current specs seen on the various Chally 2s ingame.
Aren’t you saying the same thing?
Russian vehicles aren too unbalanced in 2020+, and many western players think Russian and China are eastern countries using similar vehicles, so they think Chinese vehicles are same strong like Russian ones without actually playing them.
Huh? He’s referring to when the balance was clearly in the favour of the T-80BVM, before they added Leopard 2A6/2A7, better rounds, etc. There was an actual unbalance claim to be made prior to their additions. Now the balance is clearly in favour of Germany, although they all have similar winrates, but ignorant people act like the times have never changed. Just like how ignorant one must be to assume USSR / China - same - same. Actually - playing China is a good gauge of how nations are doing and what MBTs are good or not, because you have to face just about everyone, including USSR.
As an Australian, I pity any other Westerner who hasn’t given either of these trees a go.
