TBH I didn’t vote Ariete originally cause I don’t think it was 12.0 worthy in the first place. Besides that, Chally is bad especially in a city map, Leclerc is sort of mid cause the reload is nice but the protection and the fuel tanks… VT4 is sort of just as bad but 7.1 s reload and worse reverse speed. Actually to me some of them simply do not deserve 12.0.
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the only way to play it unfortunately
that for sure, one of my favourite tanks to play with. Apart of OTOMATIC
am I masochist?
No, you are just a connoisseur of art)
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Leclerc has equivalently bad protection to Ariete and only a good reload with a pretty shit round (only slightly better than chally rounds, but then none of the bells and whistles or protection). Doesn’t help they’re under the deluded impression that the fuel tanks detonate the moment sneezed on, unlike nigh any other toptier tank after a few changes a little while back.
Only really the Chally 3 TD is worse than Leclerc imo. Slower, worse reload, armour’s adequate everywhere but where it matters so it just slows it down.
One of my favourite tanks in WT is the tortoise so mobility is rarely a concern for me to do good or enjoy the game.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but the Leclerc has better armor, same optics, slightly worse round, better speed and I think better visibility(since I can’t remember if ariete can look behind it easily or not)… as being the worse tank of the 2?
That makes no sense to me.
Tortoise is fun
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I would not say that the Ariete AMV’s round, DM53, is only slightly better than the LeClerc’s.
I wish there was a way to track people who voted for certain tanks with never owning them or playing them very little. The strength of forum consensus definitely taints opinions.
Edit: lol, responded to myself. That is funny.
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Okay, so then the rest is true? Cool. Then the Leclerc isn’t worse than the ariete.
Not to mention I use a 480mm pen round at top tier quite handedly.
While pen of a shell is definitely meaningful, it is less so than the rest of the stats discussed. Otherwise light vehicles would be useless in the game. Yet people get kills all the time with rounds that are 150-270mm pen.
Armor, speed, traverse freedom and reload are all more important than your dart.
You know 97% war thunder players have skill issues when they take 7.1 sec 577mm pen over 5 sec 630mm pen
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The Leclerc is more of a light tank currently, but it’s still amazing. My favorite tank in game and also my most played tank. It’s easily in the top half of top tier MBTs.
Best gun handling at top tier, 2nd best reload (and before you say Abrams etc have 5 second reload too, most people don’t have ace crews and I kill Abrams often by out reloading them), and the best mobility at top tier.
Armor is the least important of the three pillars of tank design in War Thunder and anytime I see someone complain about a tank having good/bad armor as if that’s the only thing that matters I roll my eyes (not saying you do that, but a lot of people do).
I’m really surprised people didn’t pick the Chally 2 BN.
I will not speak to the rest of your assessment of Ariete AMV vs Leclerc since I do not have Arietes. I felt comfortable addressing the DM53 aspect since I have plenty of DM53 shooters and also own the Leclercs.
I enjoy my Leclercs even though they have some issues and I in no way think they are second worst. I feel they have a lot of average/good aspects and no real, clear stand out strength. However, the combination of these aspects make it a good tank, especially in high end players’ hands.
My opinion only (as an average at best player…I find top end players can make any tank work, so…)
The dart: it is average at best and struggles to kill in a single shot which paired with the Leclerc’s armor and 3-man crew can spell trouble. The round is obviously not as forgiving as the DM53 or US top round and a few others. That is no big deal to elite players, but for a potato like me it matters.
The optics: very good, but Challys, Merkavas, and others also have very good optics
Gun handling: very good (the closest to a standout area), but again a few other tanks have equal handling so not a definitive it is the best in this area to set it apart
Mobility: Very good. The ZTZ-99A, WZ, Abrams, and others are agile as well, so even if the Ledclerc is slightly more agile, it still does not stand out
Armor: It is okay-ish, most armor cannot stand up at top tier anyway, but I feel the 3-man crew paired with the armor hurts it a bit more than 4-man crewed tanks. It definitely does not survive shots like the BVM, Leopards, STRVs, or even on occasion the Merks
Reload: this became less special after recent buffs. Do not get me wrong the 5 sec autoloaded gun is good, but many people at least expert their crews and get their reloads very close to 5 seconds without having the risk of only 3 crew.
Fellow French players: this can be a huge strength and no matter the cause (lack of high tier premium, forum reputation of French tree, etc), many French line players are very good. I forget the streamer, I think Semicooperative, but he had a great point about passive and active advantages of tanks. He said that the Abrams and Leclercs have more active advantages so the tank really shows in the hands of good players, but can appear weaker in the hands of an average or worse player. As I said earlier, the elite players can make any tank work. Just for completeness, the streamer identified the survivability of things like the BVM as passive strengths that allow the average to below average player to survive things they usually would not in a more active advantage vehicle. I think this is quite true.
When you combine all the factors together, I find the Leclerc to be an average tank (in school grades I would say it is a B- maybe for an average player, but probably an A for an elite player like most tanks would be). I personally think tanks in game should be looked at from an average player perspective not the top or bottom folks.
As a parallel to how I rate the Leclerc, I personally love the Chally’s in concept, but to me they are closer to a C- or D when you aggregate the round (2E, BN) and the mobility (3TD, BN) with the huge breech weak point and other armor weakness.
Anyway, just the thoughts of a mediocre (at best, on a good night) player.
An addendum: I also think that the differences between most of these tanks matter far less and cause me far fewer deaths than CAS killing me from afar with little to no defense. Just had to throw that in there ;)
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The Ariete used to have the best round in the game but now it has nothing.
Its purely the APS. Its kinda rare and incredibly valuable in the KH-38 meta at top tier at the moment.
If you removed that, it would get a lot more votes
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Its one of the only tanks with both DM53 (best round in game) and 5 second reload. Most DM53 have 6 second reloads.
well yeah untill M829A2 fired from a L44 is better aswell
TBH every time I play black night the experience is kinda smooth, maybe its my expectation is a bit lower, so when my aps actually work for once it makes me happy.
And for most tank in this tier list except for the few having armor, its always good until u get hit. Like ariete is definitely better than leclerc except when u get hit, leclerc’s hull might eat a shell with less than 600 pen and ariete has nothing
Its definetly being carried by APS and some very good optics.
But there are so many things they could do to make the BN and other CR2s a lot more fun to use. Like increasing the ready rack from for 4 rounds to 20-28 rounds