Where is LWS America?

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
122

No? I use laser guided weapons a vast amount of vehicles from 10.3 roughly all the way to top tier?

Just because you can get FnF doesn’t mean it’s always better.
Gbu8s are lock and drop , id much rather my laser guided bombs due to distance at which they can be used…

2 things here man.
1- the missiles or bombs to land on a target actually do need to be guided in, even if you do not lase then till the last 3 or 4 second its more than enough time to pop smoke and move, i was doing it not a few days ago in the raam sagol and merkava mk3s.
Against Vikhrs no less so not a slow missile at all.

2 - it is extremely handy to get a bead on people who may be using a laser range finder on you, allows you to wiggle and move to then return fire.

You’re selling the LWS short massively on what it can help with.
Ground atgms as well do as well show up for the most part.

It doesn’t pale in comparison? It’s still a strong useful missile to the point where im now working towards the Ka52 as well as the Ah64E.

If you play the game and have used cas. You should know roughly what is lasing you

123

I’m talking about top tier, not 10.3.

FnF is extremely better in most cases, practically making Laser a niche choice.

At top tier ?
No I’m not.

Let’s not pretend that top tier ATGMs that trigger LWS are a common sight.

Strong and useful when AAs aren’t around.

LMUR, JAGM and company are the meta for a very good reason. The efficiency of those things is simply much higher than it is for any other missiles, there’s no denying that.

Keyword roughly.
Remember how you need to smoke instantly if you want to survive a missile that’s already really close, so no time to think about it, while also worrying about other things happening around you.

You consistently smoking out yourself and your position pretty much kills your gameplay. Not to mention you need to have smokes in the first place.

Something like APS is infinitely more useful than just LWS, as you don’t need to interrupt your gameplay to make use of the system to survive something.
Not to mention it works on a lot more stuff.

So yeah, at top tier LWS is a bottom of the barrel utility, probably in line with gun launched missiles.

124

10.3 and 12.7 which is top tier mate.

If you have access to FnF mate, I’ve used both on platforms as well?
One isn’t objectively better than the other as FnF has errors of where it will hit, and it’s guidance etc.

From a person who uses both CAS and ground at top tier regulalarly, yes you are.
The LWS can both save you from CAS attacks if you are paying attention as well.

You also as a CAS player notice how much the LWS helps notify people to your presence. not everyone is using FnF weapons mate, not everyone has access to them.
that’s the point we are making. Not every single persons hurling HAMMERS, KH38 or LMURs out.

I’m sorry? what? xD most systems which aren’t beam riding trigger it. That’s not debatable, most nations don’t have a top teir ATGM slinger. that isn’t firing stuff like spikes. which most times they will use the LRF as well as fire teh spike, thus alerting to the tank to the firing of both a cannon and spike missile.
Again if you are paying attention.

Nothing right now without DAZZLER is useful when the top tier AA are around, not even things like mig29 SMT etc.

“And company” what is and company to these missiles? there only two helis which have them also have the dazzler system.
The KA52 is still a great heli even if there are SPAA up.

Smoke instantly? you can smoke 2 or 3 seconds out and it will still miss.

I’ve plenty time to think about it again if you’ve got experience at the BRs you know exactly how to utalise it.

Who has LWS before smokes? That I find weird.
As well as that the smoking out your locations better than getting hammered into the ground by a missile no?
Irregardless of the smoke, you smoke and reposition to avoid being locked up again, not as if you just sit there and smoke every time theres a missile.

Eh APS is extremely limited in use as well, most only providing limited cover over specific arcs for 2 shots. Once they are out, a missile can get through that.
I would know I’ve used the BN and VT4A1 enough.

That’s an extremely subjective opinion, LWS also gives you the location of ground units lazing you for ranging, which again is extremely handy for identify where they actually are.

125

I’m not gonna answer all of them as @An_Pigeon has already answered most of them and I agree with most of what he said

It’s quite obvious that you don’t play helicopters. You have to hide behind a wall which like mountain or a building. Both of which are not that common.

You cannot simply “hide” by sticking low to the ground. the arch of the IRIST goes extremely high.

crazy conclusion but okay. Mpat rounds bust also be useless then?

they aren’t. any ka52 will tell you that. the JAGM SAL is the first viable LOS competitor to the vikhrs

how much do you think it weighs?

Also ignoring (again) that this only works against stationary targets. one moving you have to be lasing them constantly.

If they have an LWS and is moving, they can either get into cover or pop smoke

Any competent player will move to a place where an spaa will least except it. Spaa will usually be placed in the defensive.

It’s a mach 2+ missile so by the time, an spaa realizes that there’s a helicopter, they will be forced to intercept or else they’ll be destroyed.

Which the majority do… It’s not that difficult.

That’s your opinion but okay. Guess the countless times, my jagms missing a merkava, type 10, type 99 was my imagination…

This is the same energy of saying the the hellfires is equivalent to the vikhrs while playing neither

oh wait…

I’ve yet to see a piece of evidence that proves Hellfires are inferior to Vikhrs when it comes to AT duties.

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126

At 12.7 it’s nothing more than a niche system that’s rendered useless in most cases. You can disagree with me if you want but my discussion about that ends here.

That’s why I wrote in most cases.
Laser has niche uses.

Have I said it couldn’t ?
You also ignored my points on smoking yourself out and how that negatively affects your gameplay.

Majority of nations do in fact have access to FnF weapons, so we’re yet again back to Laser being niche at top tier.

You’re pretty much making my point as majority does in fact use FnF weapons.

And most systems at top tier are either beam riding or FnF.
Your point ?

Why should anyone use LRF before firing a FnF missile ?
It’s literally negative IQ gameplay.

So we come back to SACLOS AAs which are hard countered by FnF missiles.

Chinese ones maybe ?

How can you know how much time you have until impact ?

?
First of all, smokes have limited uses as far as I know.
Second of all, LWS is pretty much always bundled with LRF and that modification is often a tier or two lower than smokes.

Someone can laze you to annoy you, doesn’t mean a missile is on your way.

Good old repositioning argument, like we play on huge maps and have room to move around.

I’ve used it as well and that thing is infinitely more useful than some system that will make you paranoid and pop smoke at basically any sign of danger.

You simply can’t react in time to someone lazing you from an average engagement distance and firing a shot. Also, someone can laze the ground around you and get a really accurate range without even giving you a warning.

It’s funny how LWS can be more of an annoyance than helpful in plenty of cases lol.

127

For most of that refer to my post above.

Again, tanks have predictable paths and have very limited maneuvering capabilities, so manually guiding the missile in the predicted path shouldn’t be hard. Laser locks can also be interrupted by soft cover so it’s better to keep an eye on the missile anyways.

Yes, competent AA players surely don’t hide from good helicopter spots and are forced to react by proxying a salvo of Vikhrs, effectively running themselves out of all missiles.

The amount of bullshit masked as “arguments” I’ll read on this forum will eventually make me abandon this cesspool.

So you can basically lock out players from playing the game by simply lazing them for a second.
This game is beyond saving.

No it’s not.
In late 2025 it’s pretty much matter of a fact.

You still haven’t produced anything on that to counter my claim and apparently you’re still thinking about it, so I hope you aren’t losing any sleep over it. That’s actually funny and sad at the same time, which doesn’t happen often to be fair.

128

So then why are you here?
You’ve been told mutliple times how it isn’t exactly niche and why it actively can help in more than just one scenario, meaning it isn’t niche yeah

If you don’t want to discuss it more allow those who do to talk to one another.

laser is actually the opposite of niche, it is applicable to more situations and uses than the FnF if anything FnF is more niche, you can’t control where it will hit, or the way it will go in.
It is locked and launched and thus more niche.

You think you have to smoke if a player lases you, I also did mention the smoke as it allows you to at least survive the issue.

They have access to it but not every single player does.
Hell go watch some of justin plays, he sits at Top tier using LGW all the time still xD
It’s not as if it’s that niche, as I said you’ve got more control of it and majority of the time better targetting pods bar maybe on the likes of KH38MT

The majority dont, as someone who’s been actively playing top tier for the past 2 months there was a small surge of Lmurs at top tier and now it’s back to the standard folks just slogging it out without enough SP to spawn etiher the heli or the Jet with the ordinance like you’re making out.

to fire their auto cannon as most players do actually do
They don’t just sling the missile and move on, as we know most FnF missiles don’t do the job and need to be followed by a burst.

They are not hard countered by it at all.
If you’ve any idea how to use fixed wing planes they can deal with it.

How can you not?
You are telling me you made it to top tier without being able to 1 work out the timings between laser warnings to contacts.
You also can hear them pretty well as well.

I tend to not go for LRF before smokes on my vehicles at higher BRs the darts effectively negate any real need for it.

Which can also be done to helis.
This is a moot point and irrelevant to LWS being niche?

We certainly have enough time, space and warning to reposition??

How can you not reposition? xD
If I can reposition in merkavas then you certainly can in other vehicles.

You don’t justpop smokes willy nilly you seem to have not learned how to use the LWS properly yet.
The APS on the BN or any other vehicle like the VT4 is extremely finite and only lasts for a couple pops either flank.
If someones firing FnF missiles they literally overwhelm it.

You quite literally can, would you like to see me do it repeatedly ?

if they think to do that, the majority do not.

129

That’s the point… You need to be constantly be constantly (if not periodically) lasing the target if is moving.

Yeah man, lets try to hide these busses in places where people can’t see… The claws is the only exception but even then can easily be spotted.

You’re also forgetting that it gets a cannon that can shoot and reliably hit targets from 6km away. Did I mention that you don’t need direct LOS too?

Not sure what world you’re living in but the Ka52 was dominating for a reason.

most systems at top tier are either beam riding or FnF.

Well considering you don’t know the difference between beam riding and SALH, sure man, keep thinking that.

But I have though, you chose to ignore it. Oh, the wonders of having selective reading.

Considering that the majority of “educational” CCs like Tim’s Variety and Bob Dickinson as well as players who play these vehicle have the same opinion as I do regarding hellfires, I won’t be losing any sleep. it’s funny you’d think that though. I’ve only met one other person who said something similar and it’s not hard to know who that person is since he’s known for being a contrarian on the forums. It’s easy to remember those who spout outlandish claims than those who say what the majority thinks.

130

It’s pretty much niche when those scenarios are niche, it’s really simple actually.

I feel like one big LMAO is the best response here.

Laser pointer won’t defeat itself.

Undersell of the century.
From August to October 28NM went from ~100k to 500k+ games played.

Yeah, your burst of low penning darts will surely do loads of damage to someone sitting hull down across the map.

FnF helicopters are simply outclassing all SACLOS AA.
Plenty of planes do it too.

What are you even talking about my dude.
Someone can mess with you with his laser and you have no idea of knowing if the missile is 2km or 5km out.

Can be hard to do that with all the noise coming from the battlefield.
Also, you don’t need LWS to be able to hear, so thanks for strengthening my point.

It’s better to pick LRF than brakes or suspension anyways.
If you believe darts negate the need for LRF then that doesn’t sound good for the LWS.

Yeah, I don’t think helicopter is all that worried about your lazing from 5km away, unless they are in a perfect hover.

No you don’t, especially on certain maps.

You must, otherwise you won’t have time to dodge that missile which is only 2 or 3 seconds away from you.

You’ll still get shot either way and your tank simply isn’t maneuverable enough to stop it, unless you’re in a perfect hull down position. Also, your custom battle “proof” mean absolutely nothing as you know there’s nothing else on the map that can hurt you, which will improve your reaction times.

So your precious system is only really effective against bottom of the barrel players, both on the ground and in the air ? Good to know.

Not only it’s only really effective against the dying breed of weaponry, it also requires the enemy player to be actually lobotomized to even give you a warning. Amazing, isn’t it ?

131

You don’t laze the target, you laze terrain around it while predicting it’s movement until a few seconds before impact.

Lets stop pretending helicopters can’t be easy to spot as well.
Competent AA players will know where to hide to make the most out of it.

Oh yeah, the ray of death no one can escape from.
I guess this is why Kamov was so OP, not.

Yes, reason being AA players couldn’t think of a way to shoot their missile not straight towards the helicopter.

Do show me all the Laser weaponry found on ground vehicles and helicopters at top tier.

Nah, you simply haven’t.

So majority is always right ?
This forum has produced some godawful takes and guess what, majority of people in here agreed with them for their own reasons. 2S38 being OP was just one of the many of those.

132

I’ve just told you why it’s not niche.

Shows how little you know of top tier cas.

It doesn’t have to , the smoking isn’t at all my point, it gives you the direction of where the shot is coming from and in the majority of cases it allows for a slight movement / adjustment meaning the shot isn’t lethal.

Again, A small surge which is already on the down.
Plus again stat sharks not reliable to show how many players are using vehicles.
there’s literally reports on the forum showing players , playing gamemodes they’ve not touched in years.

It generally is what happens yes.
unless it’s at extremely long ranges.
Seeing as I’ve been bashing isreal 11.3 and France 11.0 -12.7 the vast majority of light users tend to fire some darts after they fire the missile.

What plane outclass the SACLOS AA other than ones with access to the KH38MT?
Every other plane that has FnF is mavericks or an amalgimation of one, thus has to be within their range.
Only laser guided weapons allow you to sit out of the range of the majority of SACLOS SPAA

Again, very little people do.
You generally by the time you are at top tier with multiple nations can discern how far out the missile is as well as hear them.

So LWS gives you the direction, and the fact something isbeing hurled at you, which gives you extra time on top of the audio queue.

extremely damneasy with the noise from the battlefield?
Either your audio set up is garbage or you ain’t paying attention.
Hell I can hear missiles from damn drones when they’re 3km away xD

Hardly, mobility at these BRs is substantially more important than lasing an enemy.

I believe they make the necesity that you were implying of the LRF irrelevant, your very argument before hand means that you go for the LRF very rapidly, thus meaning the LWS is still extremely relevant.

They tend to move when I do lase them so yeah they are worried.
You again have not used cas at higher BRs

You do man.
You can’t argue that point almost every game I’ve played recently is above 11.0 and at top tier, the maps are fine.

133

No you must not.
You are not responding to what I am, I am talking about when a player lases you.
The smokes giving your attention away but surviving a missiles is negligible as you are surviving, as well as giving a deterrent to the one firing it.
they wont waste missiles on targets which can identify something is coming.
I know I wont.

Custom battle?
I don’t use custom battle proof lol there’s hundreds of replays of mine over the past few weeks, go watch them.
the merkavas specifically I can move the tank to survive theshot and usually respond.

You cooked up an extremely specific example with one of the very few players who doesn’t do custom battles, the last time I was in a ground custom battle-
was for you to test the T80U armour.
so yeah.
Speak for yourself mate.

it works in every lobby so, the bottom of the barrel are the majority?

Not at all, You’re certainly trying to twist what has been said completely.
The vast majority of players, like yourself from what i can see in your responses lack either awareness or response times to make use of the LWS, and make it a handy thing to plague on enemies.

Ill leave it here.
Your now at the stage of just repeating yourself man

134

sometimes I wonder if you’ve ever tried out tactics you say that works…

They can’t. hiding means that you’ll be reducing the sector of where you can use your radar to search. This can easily be taken advantage of. Turning off you radar works because you can put helicopters in false security but it also comes at the cost of you being essentially blind to any heli player that doesn’t play from spawn.

It’s not a ray of death, it’s spreads and when critical components are hit, you can switch to agms.

After the new spaa. sure the Ka52 is not OP. Before it certainly was before it.

If you meant ground vehicles, then yes. It’s either beam riding, SACLOS, or FnF. If it’s helicopters the only beam riding agms are from the russians and the all the other nations operate SALH. Aircraft only use SALH as it’s laser guidance. the only exception is the 25T.

Guess you can’t click on a simple link. Here it is again: Guided weaponry data (in-game values) Honorable mention for Jaek_ for making amazing videos on missile on YouTube If you want to reach enlightment, then you have to spade the Italian heli line, no talisman/ premium/ boosters - Google Spreadsheets

It’s very helpful. I suggest you use it when you have the chance.

Did I ever mention the just the forums? If CCs who make tutorials, and informational videos say that the Ka52 is the best heli in the game (prior to new spaa), If the forums, reddit, and other social media platform say it is, yeah man, it’s just you.

I hope one day you start playing CAS and see the error in your ways.

135

I just told you that it is actually niche.

Sure.
It was also a coincidence that the most oppressive pieces of CAS in 2025 had access to some really strong FnF weapons, am I right ?

At top tier FnF is meta and for a very good reason.
Denying that just makes you look really funny.

Only if things were that good.

My guy, 5x isn’t a small surge.

Source ?
It’s also funny how SS apparently bugged out right in time for LMUR’s addition.

So low pen darts are really useful against hull down enemies at 12.7.
First time hearing this.

IR Hammers ?

Source ?

Again, you don’t need LWS to hear a missile incoming.
You’re basically strengthening my argument without even knowing it, really peak.

Again, your audio queue might be masked by other sounds on the battlefield.
It gives you enough time to save yourself only if you deploy smoke instantly, which is problematic on it’s own.

Yeah, missiles are now as loud as jets lol.

I hope you realize this sentence goes against the core of your argument.

Or it just means that LRF is more valuable than brakes or suspension…

I don’t have to use CAS in order to see what happens when you laze a helicopters lol.
That movement will throw your shot off and basically not create any problems for them and their optics.

So maps are fine for top tier vehicles.
First time hearing this.

No, but they’ll laze you, force you to pop smoke and then change targets anyways.
You’re basically a puppet and they hold the strings.

They exist in great numbers, no wonder so many are opposing the SBMM system.

Or maybe you’re making things up, which wouldn’t be your first time.

136

I don’t really know why you’re arguing against LWS can u just agree that its nice to have, stop complaining. Other nations have it and I don’t care if it’s beneficial or not, the us should still have it.

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137

Yes, lazing 5m in front of the target rather than on the target itself will somehow magically not work, reasons being the argument.

Helicopters spawn at predetermined spots.

Come on dude, we surely would be seeing more mald threads about it in here if it was even as slightly as useful as you’re portraying it to be. It’s on a RU vehicle after all and those get the special scrutiny from the forum experts.

And ?
Pretty much Top 5 of AGMs is consisted of things that don’t trigger LWS.

Nothing in there that proves your point.

You’re mixing things up, but that’s to be expected.
I never said Ka-52 wasn’t the best helicopter.

I suggest you start reading more carefully next time, will you ?
It’s literally written in the quote you used a few replies back.

I hope one day you learn to read carefully so you can follow a conversation that spreads for more than a few replies.

138

US players coming together to get one of the least useful systems on their top tier tanks, instead of asking for much more important things.

Classic.

139

Please tell me what the us needs then 🙂
And that is the most bs reason ever, the us shouldn’t get LWS just cause its not useful? Thats like saying the sep v2 should only have 1 50cal cause 2 50 cals are ”not useful” like what… why shouldn’t it? U sound like youre trapped in gajins basement or smth. And your reasoning makes no sense

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140

No, it means you as an US player should work towards getting something more useful.

Don’t tell me you’re unaware of things that can be improved on M1s ?

141

Like what? Ive asked for a sep v3 so many times lol. (Including a lws with rosy)

Of course not. The thing is that gajin won’t change anything about the abrams, maybe if we’re lucky they will do so with the sep v3.
but the abrams is not bad. If you think so you’re delusional

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