What would a balanced game in War Thunder be like? --> Multi-Battle Balancer

I have a collector play style, unlocking each vehicle in the progression and all its modifications. Always starting with a new vehicle.
There are few premium or fully developed vehicles that I use frequently, and only to quickly accomplish a task (usually PvE and not PvP).

It is nothing more than a play style, everyone plays as they like. But most concentrate their use on the “good well-known” vehicles, trying to get the natural PvP advantage… they may not be necessary premium vehicles.
After playing for 7 years, I figure out that this generates a concentration of certain BRs in the queue and consequently high frequency up-tiering for a set of vehicles at just lower BR when other players try or need to use them.

This situation attempts against WT greatest feature, the “battlefield diversity”. The potential is there but is not promoted.

IMO The ideal balance for a game like WT is that when you go out with your 4.0 vehicle, in average, half of the battles you should face 5.0 vehicles and the other half 3.0 vehicles. If you have a high up-tiering frequency (mostly face 5.0 vehicles) for whatever reason, it is an unbalanced or unfair game experience.

What about a new mechanic? Multi-Battle Balancer.

If you 4.0 template enter in 2 consecutives up-tiered battles, the next time the MM will try to put you in a down-tiered one.
This kind of balancer could make easier to unlock and use unpopular vehicles and can make the battlefield more diverse and interesting.

Implementation notes:

  • You could select in options if you could wait 1, 2 or 3 minutes max. Also, if you want to disable the balancer in your profile to get a battle as soon as possible.
  • Operate at “your profile” level, balancing your personal gameplay experience.
  • To accrual +1 in your “up-tiered battle counter” you need to exhaust your spawn points or 10 battle minutes at minimum.
  • If you think well, not necessarily increase the queue times for all players. Simply replace you with other player in a battle (you have enough up-tiering for now).
  • After you enter in a down-tiered battle your counter will be reset to 0.
1 Like

Come on man!
Why “skill issue” is your phrase so quickly and without any reasonable argument…

Figure out this typical battle situation…
You spawn with your tank destroyer with decent armor…
You take your time to flank the enemy.
And you got it!!!
You are targeting an enemy tank on his side at 600m… you surprise him by making… 1… 2 and 3 shots… with heavy damage but without destroying him.
But he got the time to turn his turret to you and kill you with a single frontal shot.

You can’t understand how this could happen… but finally you discover that your BR was 6.0 and his was 7.0
That was the explanation!
Like any game, skill is an important factor… but in WT the major factor is the difference between the vehicle you are using vs your instant enemy vehicle.
And is great!.. is the challenge!.. the diversity… the interesting thing about this game.

But if this kind of situation repeat once and again and again… is not funny… and is not fair play.
The real chance to get a similar situation with a 5.0 tank is very reduced. Why?

And man… look your profile and mine… at least I have 9 times more developed elite vehicles than you…
Could you give some opportunity to my observation?

1 Like

What tank are you fighting and with what td for you to hit them 3 times in the side and not knock it out?

Well… ok, I described the typical WT frustration scenario.
But think that my rational turns around the BR definition itself… but ok, lets find and example.

You go out with M24 (3.7)… is fast… ideal to try to flank enemy and surprise them…
You found a slow advancing tank, but you have the surprise and his side!!!
3 shots… you break his engine… even kill some crew… but he slowly turns his turret and kill you with a single shot. Was a KV-1 ZiS-5 (4.7)… a logical explanation.
You can say… nooo!!!.. you must hide after first bad shot on his side… simply hit and run and look for another lighter target! (the skilled player even won’t try)

What is BR? Is a very ambitious absolute number that resume a lot of vehicles combat characteristics.
Naturally a 4.7 is better than 3.7… how? better armor? better punch?..
Not matter! there will be a 2.7 that is naturally worse than your 3.7…

To get a balanced WT gameplay, all you need is to have the same chances to found a 4.7 or a 2.7 in the battlefield… even if Gaijin do some bad math’s with some vehicle BRs (example “BR compression” that many WT guru player talk). Even if the crazy Gaijin decide that now the battle BR range will be ±2 instead of ±1. If you have as described multi-battle BR balance this extreme case is also buffered.

In resume… if your 3.7 vehicle fight very frequently with 4.7 (or simply higher BRs) your effective (real) BR is lower than 3.7.


skill issue LOL

anyway, a more balanced game would just fix it, no need to make mm formulas. Never gonna happen, but some solutions tend to be pretty easy

Look that my proposal is a single and pretty easy to implement change with a MAJOR balancing effect and minimal drawbacks.

“…a more balanced game would just fix it…” you are suggesting that the balance issues, as described or others, are a bunch of insolated cases that they need to be solved one by one?

If you broke his engine first shot, hit lower middle hull. Or turret if the angle is still good. Depending on distance from the kv, you are able to out pace his turret rotation.

What? Your br is still 3.7 as your tank should be relatively operating at about 1br lower than a 4.7. This means that you are still capable of fighting 4.7s without it being too unbalanced.

Br is basically a system to determine a vehicles overall performanve in-game. The first br it gets is what the dev believe it to be based on its overall characteristics. The brs after that are based on player performance. A 4.7 is 1.0 br more effective than a 3.7 based on player performance.

Ironically it could increase uptiers when someone gets the auto downtier as it forces the mm to prevent the players right below the player’s br from getting a downtier. I am 4.7 and get the auto downtier and now the 3.7-4.3 players in queue are given an uptier preference.

no, it’s just one big problem that blowed up with volumetric (plus other stuff) Decide br with vehicle stats instead of player stats ( if that is real), go back with the spall nerf and … pretty much that, damage models and real br

Test your affirmation with “game protection analysis”, and tell me your finds…

Friend, think twice… Don’t you think that this phrase is statistically false by definition?.

Exactly!!! Thats why you going to have an unfair play is you ALWAYS (or 80% of the matches) fight against higher BRs.

What? That has nothing to do with what you quoted.

From my experience fighting kv1s with the american 75, it can pen the side pretty well. That is how I usually take out kv1s with it.

Ok… your start to thinking about undesired side effect of this mechanic to the rest of the queued players… Great!.
I think it too…

You are 3.7 and there is 100 players in queue 50 of them are using the new premium 4.7 fashion vehicle

Possible battles
2.7 - 3.7 Heavy Downtiered
3.0 - 4.0 Softly Downtiered
3.3 - 4.3 Softly Uptiered
3.7 - 4.7 Heavy Uptiered

The mechanic simply ban you temporally to enter in 3.3-4.3 and 3.7-4.3.
Remember that is a high number of 4.7 in queue that MM is trying to handle… let’s them fight each other!!!, at least 1 of 3 of my battles… instead of put me ALWAYS in High Frequency Up-tiering!

KV-1 ZiS-5 is 4.7
KV-1s is 4.0 and has more light armor in the side.

New vehicle spam kills mm and is annoying. They could honestly limit the amount of players with it in their line-up in each battle. Maybe like a 1 month limit of 5 per team.

This is what i was refering too, sorry for not further specifying. It used to be 4.3 too.

Whatever be the game mechanic issue that cause unbalance and need to be resolved… volumetric damage, bad BR number assignation to a vehicle or “plus other stuff” that you can see or discover… All these issues could be buffered if MM make some little job trying to put you equally in Up-tiered and Down-tiered battles.

You were talking about what is BR number. We are agreeing regarding its meaning and how could be calculated… The final intention is to get the ideal BR for any vehicle.
I continue this affirmation with… whatever the case if you statistically fight much many times against higher BR you will be in an unfair gameplay, and that is a statistical true.

The balancing mechanic that I am proposing could do the magic (or at least address it…)

Take out the freedom of players to use the vehicle that they want is never an option, IMO.

Wouldnt this also mean that the larger amount of uptiers is keeping a tanks br lower than it should be at? Giving it more downtiers would push its performance up which might cause it to be raised. Interesting to think about.

Clever think!!! exactly!..
But how frequently Gaijing do that?.. and how frequently they say, if we increase some BRs we could solve a balancing problem but we could generate another one? (nerf that vehicle unfairly)

I think again and again and again about how the BRs system could work perfectly? and my answer is always the same…

If every vehicle BRs fight equally or near equally with higher and lower BRs… Is the only way, using the player statistics, to approximate the perfect BR for certain vehicle.

If the dirt of high frequency for up-tiering or down-tiering appear the statistical obtaining of appropriate BR will fail.

Honestly, first thing gaijin needs to do before anything is decompression. Spend like 3 updates only putting out mid rank vehicles and increasing a max br. This would make the performance curve less steep while not creating voids from expanding br without adding stuff to the middle. I know adding top tier stuff is like crack for them but they need to chill out a bit.

I appreciate every attempt of passionate players to improve the game.

From a neutral perspective your idea looks interesting, but imho you face 2 problems:

  1. Who is your target group with your proposal?
  2. How can you get 70 to 100 upvotes of an official suggestion in order to force gaijin to even consider your suggestion?

Regarding point 1:
I mean seasoned and battle-hardened veteran players are aware of which BR ranges are prone to full uptiers (and at what point in time) as they fully understand how this game works, so from a holistic pov they can handle this.

But if you see the hell of posts by players with less experience trapped in endless uptier loops - they might support your idea if you would update your proposal. 150 views and just 1 like despite supporting the player base are indicators that you should rework the OP:

  • Imho you should try to describe your proposal way more simpler and shorter.
  • From a pure marketing perspective you might think about a better name like “Full-uptier equalizer” or something like that.
  • Add a poll like “equal numbers of up- and downtiers yes or no” or something like that

Regarding point 2:

Imho the harder part as your suggestion is contrary to gaijin’s claim that a vehicle in a full uptier has a realistic fighting chance. If this would be the case, there would be no need for your suggestion…

In any case - gl with your project!

1 Like