plenty wrong with them actually
I prefer more thoughtful gameplay…not brainless.
Nobody is complaining that its just stressful and thats why they want it changed
long matches will basically be just looking around for some enemy staring at your radar. that is boring. why do you want that? why do you want to use your gaming time for inactive passive gameplay where most of the time nothing is happening and people need to use orders to try and find someone.
youre not thoughtful, youre just staring at a radar screen for 5 minutes, then a thing pops up and you go after it like a brainless chicken.
with these current matches you can be thoughtful about how you go around the furballs and what not.
No.
ah right you wont even be looking at your radar youll just fly straight and hope someone appears infront you for 10 minutes straight
how fun gameplay!
No, the maps right now are small to the point where it isn’t difficult to find people at all. Shit we literally play 12v12 matches sometimes already…
not right now but if you want the matches to stay long either you have to reduce the player amount so you wont find anyone because theres almost no one there or make maps ridiculously bigger so the player density also becomes smaller resulting in you having to fly around for 7 minutes per one engagement
oh and when someone finds you their whole team will gang up on you and then people will complain how its always 6vs1
12v12 is not some massive change from 16v16
dude the matches will take basically as long because both teams still follow each other and basically meet each other in middle and have another furball
It would extend matches by reducing the effect of force concentration while spreading a smaller amount of players over an equal sized map to before. It also makes matches much more individual skill based and less team based.
you know more individual skill becomes more team skill
what?
the more skilled individuals a team has the bigger the team skill level is
duh? how is this relevant?
its as relevant as the original comment on skill that i replied to.
This is why I believe we need both
- 3 or 4 runways with forced spawn distribution that respects squads
- Integral, game-affecting/changing objectives that must be attended to and cannot be ignored. These can be as simple as air superiority objectives fro ASB EC
Tunisia 16v16 in air sim EC using props does not feel cramped to me at all, players end up naturally spread out between bomber interception, bases, attacking a.i objectives, covering a.i objectives and air superiority points.
Tunisia in air RB - exact same map except there’s only 1 runway for both thems in the same column and all objectives are spread across like 16 km next to the coast - is incredibly cramped and busy even at prop tiers.
Lack of markers probably also contribute but unless it’s super cloud time or evening, tunisia is easy plane spotting time (ground is a smooth, regular texture of sand, no trees or buildings popping in and mostly flat. On winter stalingrad I’ve lost enemies to buildings changing from super low LOD to higher level as I was diving on them…).
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Basically we need air rb ec, a game setting/objective overhaul, and maybe some actual mixed combat with tank’s, plane’s, and naval all fighting on the same map.
Short matches can also be prolonged by introducing multiple spawns.
You get less rewards, and the gameplay feels much less rewarding in general. I want to be able to use tactics and positioning more, and I want to have better bvr fights.
I was taking about them being overwhelming, usually because rwr won’t shut up, and there is just constant action which isn’t always fun.
Yeah I do play props, but there are issues with lower BRs too. Mainly 16v16 causing snowballs (like high tier), and less skilled players. I’d you try and use tactics in props, you either end up in a 1v5 because your team died, or a 6v1 because the enemy team all died. Both of those result in you not getting any rewards.
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Also, this feels like a prime example of ARB being 2 camps:
- 1 side wanting air sim style engagements and experience but with a lower skill floor due to controls and visibility
- 1 side wanting air arcade style quick battles.
Before I originally quit WT in 2015, prop matches would easily last multiples of even our current longest match and gave you plenty of time and space to fully utilize even strict boom and zoom aircraft.
Warthunder RB right now, if you take a plane whose only viable way of use outside of unique duel conditions (high altitude fight with clouds to trade jumpscares with the enemy (p-51-D-5 versus Bf-109 K4 being an even match up in a dogfight) is to climb high, dive on the enemy and GTFO back to altitude while the enemy loses altitude and speed dodging your attack… your game ends before you finish killing that single enemy.
The A.I induced ticket bleed was a major contributor to this. It happened automatically even if you did focus down all enemy team’s bombers and attackers as a team because dumb a.i planes that exist to make stock grind easier won the match.
But the maximum 25 minute match duration also contributes. Looking at my ASB footage of fights, 1 single 1-on-1 prop duel seems to average around 2-4 minutes for me as we extend away, climb and posture at each other and avoid over-committing. Do you think a 25 minute maximum timer allows people to make full use of their aircraft? Battles are shorter when there’s third partying involved or you manage to pull off a first-strike boom and zoom.
One battle I lost that stood out to me was me in a Ki-43-II at a low altitude and kind of slow from a previous fight. P-51-C dived on me, forcing me to turn and dive to get some speed. I couldn’t chase him back to altitude, and I couldn’t even really climb to regain lost altitude as I needed speed to dodge. The P-51C repeated this process over, and over, and over again with me helpless against them as I was too slow even to run away. The P-51C won a 1vs1 with a Ki-43.
One battle I won - making attack run on A.I bomber objective, Bf109 dives my F4U-4. F4U-4 actually fast enough to disengage, so I did and bf109 went back to altitude. Battle started at 19:40 and ended at 23:40 after having the time and space to reset the disadvantage I had.
Can the P-51C repeat the same thing in air RB? Maybe at the start of the match because of match duration and a.i ticket bleed. Can I repeat the same in my F4U-4? Again, same as P-51C.
And we havn’t even talked about the 16v16 mess of planes in a 16 km frontline width, maybe 32 on vietnam and the like (2 squares across).
In a 16v16 mess, only a few specific planes are viable: Very high kill-potential in 1 high-aspect snapshot and very responsive, very reactive aircraft that can dogfight multiple opponents at once and create a very high impact as soon as possible to cause snowballing. If your plane requiresr methodical BnZ, your kills are guaranteed but then you either end up like 1vs5-6 or have nothing to shoot after your first few resets. Alternatively, maneuverable and quick airspawn planes like the XP-50 to interrupt the enemy before they can even threaten your team. Don’t even need maneuverable though - my highest winrate was when I was spamming the F84-B and just flew in to screw with the enemy team accelerating to battle and then ran away. Either they chased me, leaving fewer to snowball in the middle or they died in my first pass - again, snowballing.
The current 16v16 in the middle snowballs far too quickly and hard to provide an enjoyable experience for all aircraft playstyles.
In team PvP games, you tend to have early game dominant characters (P5 and P4 in Dota2 1.68 patch), mid game dominant characters (P3 and P2, same) and late game dominant characters (P1.).
Right now, the P1 position might as well not exist as it never gets its chance to shine. Removing A.I ticket bleed is a step in the right direction.
There’s surprising parallels between strict BnZ and P1 beyond their effectiveness being minimal for early game impact - both are highly rewarding positions that favour setting up a position (monetary, spatial) advantage early to cash in on brutally rather than constant fighting.
And finally, the current runway/objective placement and snowballing distinctiveness climbing. Climbing is needed for dogfights in aircraft that can do some tight maneuvers but bleed serious speed doing so. The aforementioned P-51-D-5 vs Bf109-K-4 worked because we started at like 4500 m & 500 km/h and ended at 760 meters & 350 km/h (technically lowest point was 500 meters but one of us died by then)… Getting the P-51-D-5 to 4.5 km AND 500 km/h in ARB would’ve meant the match is likely over by the time it mattered.
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yeah why dont we just increase the reward system by 500000000000% so we can have all our vehicles researched in one match. extra rewards! extra rewards! more rewards!!! air grind is already the easiest damn grind by far and you just want more.
welcome to real life air battles where there are tens of missiles flying around at the same time from different aircraft
and sams and awacs and what not.
get used to the fact that you have to be smart with your rwr instead of getting out with ease of having just 1 thing on it and that would be threat. you cant rely on your rwr every time you can rely on it at end of match if theres couple hostile aircraft around.
its not “air arcade style quick battles”, its just realistic battles. theyre literally like that right now.
that is realistic battles.