Late model stuart vs is3 :)
Or the IS-2 when it gets derped by the PZH-2000…
Yeah and they were flying for like a week before being completely gone. It’s just a very slow plane, even when flying in a straight line.
or worse PLZ05
I took it for 1 test flight and I knew it was dead.
It belongs where it is balanced. Unless those vehicles start doing better, they wont go up. That ratel has been there for over 5 years and i dont recall people having issues dealing with it.
What is the actual issue you have with those? Is it due to the high pen?
Not to go too off topic, but my idea is broadly the same.
Basically, there’d be a large zone somewhere near each team’s airfield (but outside AA range so that running back to the zone isn’t a get out of jail free card). Flying within that radius for a specified time (Maybe at a restricted speed/altitude to again prevent shenanigans) will take you out of your plane, and let you respawn in anything but that plane (Which will have a decently sized cooldown, say 3-4 minutes, before you can select it again). Getting back into the menu via doing this does not increase the SP cost of your planes, or if it does only slightly.
The idea being that it turns CAS and CAP from something you just have to live with until someone deals with it, to something that can be quickly used to do a certain task (Bomb a camper/HVT, intercept an high threat enemy CAS plane), then allow the player to get out of the plane and back onto the ground without forcing them to fly back to the airfield, land and rearm first. Or suicide bombing something.
Speaking of, it also incentivises not lingering around in CAS planes too long, as the risk of CAP becomes much more pronounced the longer you stay over the battlefield. Better to get off a quick attach run or two and beat it back to the base before you’re shot down. Makes planes with a very high CAS potential but lacklustre firepower much more balanced.
Of course, this might risk making AA dependant SPAAs much weaker, since CAP can generally fill that role far better, which risks leaving them with nothing to do. Would need to see how it plays out and balance accordingly.
Dunno how this will play at top tier with long range FnF munitions. I don’t play up there, and I have no real interest to.
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You could always put a point behind the spawn where players could swap out of the SPAAs too, of course there would need to be a timer to stop people abusing it to de-spawn to dodge bombs then immediately re-spawn to kill the plane.
There have been lots of good suggestions over the years, but they mostly get drowned out by the fighting between the tank only advocates and the tanks only exist as CAS targets mob.
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Good point, that’s been needed for a long time.
Hell, I’d even consider adding the ability to park up your tank somewhere and spawn in SPAA temporarily to engage an aircraft, then switch back to the tank once it’s dead. Akin to how Arcade mode CAS works.
The current SPAA/CAS dynamic is almost entirely reactionary, with CAS having the advantage every single time unless someone has devoted their entire game to sitting around in spawn, waiting for CAS to show up. That’s an incredibly boring gameplay loop to be mandated, so better to just remove it and replace it with something more dynamic.
Letting player proactively respond by driving somewhere safe, spawning in SPAA to deal with the threat, then get back into tank combat means they’ll feel less helpless against CAS in general. Meanwhile, allowing players who do reactively spawn in SPAA to go back to tank combat without Jing out means less risk of an oversaturated SPAA backline that both makes CAS neigh impossible and deprives their team of a large number of front line vehicles.
That being said, there should probably be a limit on how many SPAA can spawn this way, since otherwise there’s a risk of an entire team seeing CAS bomb one guy, and all dropping what they’re doing to spawn in SPAA and deal with it.
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I believe it’s actually the Ratel 20 which is at 6.7 and has 7 mouse guided ATGM’s. The L-39 got moved up in GRB.
Well at 6.7 that high pen round is plain HEAT (which is great here), SACLOS ATGMs are quite comparable in performance.
MILAN doesn’t really do that, it launches at high speed and most of the time just flies straight. Though you might have to account for launcher offset. Absolutely disgusting to have at 6.7.
He seems to start off with the Ratel then randomly switch to the ZA/ART part way through, although he never actually specifies what he is talking about, but the ZA/ART is the only thing with CCIP at 7.3 that I can think of
You’re ignoring both the high pen APHE (Long 88, American long 90, etc) and full calibre solid shot (American 120, various French guns, 20 pounder kinda), all of which have more than enough pen to deal with almost everything they see but have substantially more post pen damage.
Also, HEATFS firing guns at the tier have both a much higher fire rate and substantially more rounds, which is important considering how unreliable HEATFS damage is. And, of course, they don’t require you to sit, expose, waiting for a ATGM to slowly fly through the air at an enemy that can pretty easily shoot you back, smoke up or just drive into cover before it arrives. Engaging an enemy at range who knows you exist is practically impossible unless they turn their brain off and drive into the open.
And, of course, the platform it’s on is just truly awful in every other way. An RH202 “main gun” with only HVAP, that will bounce on Hellcats if they’re too angled. An enormous and clumsy profile that’s awkward to manoeuvre in close quarters. Sub heavy tank mobility off road. All for a weapons system that, when it’s actually allowed to work, achieves broadly the same result as any of the various 90mm HEATFS rounds at the tier, just much less easily.
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The RH202 has issues shooting many tanks even from the side.
HVAP’s angled penetration is something that needs to be seen to be believed. PT-76s, Hellcats, M50s, ASUs, it doesn’t matter. If the target has double digit thickness of armor and isn’t effectively flat on to you, HVAP will contrive a way to bounce.
Not in the way HEAT just ignores armor, even the strongest APHE round does need to be aimed precisely with all the heavy tanks around while HEAT pretty much goes through the front plate and to deal consistent damage that’s how it should be used.
Otherwise valid, but smoke doesn’t stop ATGMs and we are at the BR in which 75% of the enemy team is sluggish heavies that can’t dodge a missile for shit, this is why even the unbelievably awful MCLOS missile carriers still get some kills.
So, apart from the mobility, sounds very much like Marder A1 but at 1BR lower. The 20mm HVAP is such a useless round that practically the vehicle is a missile carrier with scouting.
HEATFS also needs careful aim, just for different reasons, and ATGMs are no different. If I aim center mass on a Tiger II from the front, it’s entirely possible to not even disable it if I’m particularly unlucky. Miss an ammo rack by the smallest amount, and you won’t damage it.
But side on is where the real fun begins, because unless you have the ammo rack locations for every tank memorised, you’ll likely only be able to disable his gun or his movement in a single shot, not both.
This is especially relevant at this tier, since most late WW2 era tanks are big and boxy, unlike the cramped layout of early Cold War tanks.
By smoke up, I just mean use the smoke cloud to juke the incoming round if you’re caught out in the open. Just pop smoke and change course/stop/accelerate erratically, and odds are the missile will miss. You are then free to either counter attack on it’s long reload or drive into cover.
Stuff is decently clumsy, so they aren’t going to be outmanoeuvring the missile most likely, but they don’t really need to.
The mobility difference really cannot be understated. The Ratels is the worst of both worlds. It’s wheeled, so it’s terrible offroad and has an enormous turning circle. But it also has an appalling power to weight ratio, meaning it’s not even that quick on roads.
Plus it’s size. You are larger than a lot of the heavies at the BR range, especially in height and length. It is very tricky to hide it.
Also the armor. The Marder’s UFP is angled enough that it can bounce and shatter some shells at times. The Ratel’s armor is weak enough that even .30 cal coax fire can pen it through the turret front at close range, and in the enormous sides at pretty much any range you’d like.
Marder also has a crewless turret, so you can engage people from behind cover with a modicum of safety.
And way better gun handling, enough for it to fill in as a pseudo SPAA if needed.
The Marder also has over double the gun depression on the 20mm, 17 versus 8, and a LRF, for whatever good that does.
Pretty much the only advantage the Ratel has is more missiles.
I agree and I’ve tried to get a match where I can use it to counter the current L-39ZA/ART spam, but Italy seems to get teamed up with Japan 98% I’ve been in. When I do get a match, it’s a great anti L-39 vehicle.
I consider myself fairly competent SPAA user, but against 3 or 4, it’s a tough go, especially since they can just spam Zuni’s from range and it only takes a set to overpressure you.
Agreed. That thing needs it’s FM nerfed, or the gun to be less accurate, or the round to be adjusted. It’s Zuni’s on steriods.
There’s a reason why separate BRs for CAS planes were implemented, and then they didn’t bloody well bother to utilise it
I would argue that Japanese version is better as it has CCIP.