The document on Google Docs, the Enduring Confrontation wiki and the general formula of 0.75/1/1.25/1.5 x 500kg are all inaccurate to what bases in air RB require in terms of bombload to be destroyed. Does anyone know how to find out in the game files or something what exactly the requirements are? I also tried testing in custom battles but the bases there don’t have the same health as the ones in the PvP battles I played. Also I’d rather not have to test for every single bomb type for every single arbitrary BR bracket. Surely War Thunder has some accurate information somewhere about this core mechanic in the game?
Edit 7/12/23:
I noticed by accident that this thread has around 19 k views - and my input from July 2023 is outdated; so if you are looking for quick help: currently you have 2 different tables available:
Imho both approaches required a hell of work by both authors, so imho a like for their threads in which both charts are embedded would be adequate.
In case you fly above BR 5.3 in Air RB: Both charts look fine. In case yo fly top tier - i saw recently a nice vid about base kills with rockets (F-16) in order to save weight, might worth be your time: Link
But imho the work of both guys is hampered by gaijin itself, especially at prop tiers in the BR range 2.7 - 4.7. Below BR 2.7 you will find usually 3-4 non-respawning bases and a “killable” airfield. For BRs 2.7 to 4.7:
- Bomber or strike fighter pilots will face respawning bases (they reappear after a certain time) and non-respawning bases (=they vanish and enemy airfield can be destroyed) in the same planes - so it is necessary to distinguish them as the respawning bases need more bombs.
- Easiest way: 3 bases maps = non-respawning; 4 bases maps = respawning.
- At least in theory there are as of today 3 maps with 4 non-respawning bases - but i haven’t seen them for ages.
In addition some maps have respawning bases with the same health as non-respawning bases. Based on the preliminary update notes from today it looks like they try to fix that.
A list of topics which have impact on base bombing
BR bracket, which is made worse when you’re in a plane that can change BR brackets and need different number of bombs on the same map.
Bomb types: different bomb types of theoretically the same weight have different levels of TNT
Not all maps have the same number of bases, and not all maps have bases which have as many hitpoints as in other maps.Especially at prop tiers you will find maps with 3 non-respawning bases, at very low tier 4 non-respawning bases and the standard maps with 4 respawning bases with increased heath. So in Air RB the base health in the BR bracket 2.7 to 4.7 varies from 0.5-0.6 tons of TNT for a non-respawning to 0.8-0.9 tons of TNT required.
In addition you have to consider the “small bomb bonus” - resulting in base kills with 0.25 tons of TNT dropped (9x60kg) despite the base health is 0.5- 0.6 tons of TNT. You can test this with the Battle Pass B7A2 - the 800kg bomb with 0.42 tons won’t kill a non-respawning base; 9x60 kg with 0.23 tons kill it.
Napalm or the German “Flamm” often finishes already damaged bases without any TNT dropped value on the scoreboard - found this whilst spading the new He 115 .
2 C 250 Flamm kill a base, a SC 500 or 2 SC 250 not and the scoreboard says 0.001-0.004 tons of TNT dropped with 2 C 250 - whilst an enemy bomber had dropped 0.36 tons of TNT killing a single base…Unguided rockets and “Special” cases: Some pilots are killing either almost finished or complete unharmed bases with massive salvos of unguided rockets. It looks llike that even very small TNT output of each rocket benefits from something similar like the small bomb bonus, small TNT load of the warhead is producing disproportional damage. In the old forum was mentioned that some other pilots were able to finish bases with HE shells from cannons. Last but not least - below 5.0 some respawning bases “vanish” if they are ~95-98% damaged and respawn as a new base without giving the pilots the “base destroyed” score - and ofc no SLs and RPs…
Drop sequence if you have bombers with different bomb types like Ju 88s or Halifaxes. In order to get the maximum damage out of your bombload it might be necessary to drop a mix of larger and smaller bombs on the same base - an example for a Ju 88 A-1: Link
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End of post update.
Old content:
Initial content of my post
Unfortunately not. This question pops up frequently and i always answer the same: Base destruction is determined by 4 factors:
- Increasing TNT requirements in various BR steps
- Increased TNT requirements of respawning vs non-respawning bases
- Small bomb bonus is lowering TzNT requirements by 10-55%
- Special cases like napalm bombs, or finishing bases with rockets
You might want to take a look at this post:
how many bombs do i need to destroys a base in air realistic??? - Air Force Academy - War Thunder - Official Forum
Basically it boils down that the TNT requirement to kill a respawning base end around 1.4 tons of TNT required at BR 5.0 (determined by the highest BR in the match) and you have at around BR 2.7 another step increasing the TNT requirement of entry BRs to 0,5-0,6 tons of TNT for a standard base and 0,8-0.9 tons of TNT up to BR 4.7 for a respawning base.
In addition you have rare exceptions like non-respawning bases on Malta at higher tiers (6.0) and special cases like small bomb bonus or napalm bombs - plus the ability to kill bases with very low health with rockets. You find some other exceptions like F-4s killing entire bases with rockets in the old forum…
Hope this helps!
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Thanks for your response!
Just double checking do you mean imperial tons or metric tonnes? I know there’s not much difference but I’d like to be as accurate as possible.
So what you’re saying is for 0-2.7 it’s 0.6, for 3-4.7 it’s 0.9, and for 5+ it’s 1.4?
That doesn’t seem right from my experience. I was able to destroy a base with 5 x 250 lb G.P. Mk.IV bombs in a Swordfish Mk I. The total TNT filler on that comes to 153.5kg which is well below the 600kg apparently needed. The enduring confrontation chart is actually accurate for that so long as I increase the BR bracket from 1.0-2.0 to 2.3-3.3. It’s also accurate when I move it up a bracket for the other bomb I tested which was the 1,000 lb AN-M65A1 bomb on the V-156-B1. Have you tested the accuracy on the enduring confrontation chart? Could I use that chart as a reference but just use the BR bracket to the right of whatever I’m flying?
Also, do you know what the airfield value is?
Thanks again!
Mhm, my response was solely aimed for random battles in Air RB - i have zero experience with EC matches. And yes, metric tons.
What i can say is that i managed to kill the enemy airfield in my BR 2.0 Ju 88 A-1 quite often. Even if the airfield was undamaged, my max load of 28x SC 50 and 2xSC 250 was enough to kill the airfield. But not in full uptiers.
If you read my reply again you find out that i refused to determine a TNT requirement below BR 2.7 as my bombing experience there was quite limited and from last year.
I remember that i attacked bases first with a single 250kg and then with a few 50kg in order to benefit from the small bomb bonus and in order to optimize TNT output.
So my value for BRs 2.7 - 4. 7 are correct for Air RB, for your mentioned lower BRs and your special mode i have zero clue if you have the same mechanics there, so i recommend to add a tag EC as there are for sure EC experts willing to help.
I am playing air RB not EC however someone on Reddit stated that the values on the EC chart were correct for air RB as well. Sorry I didn’t clarify that. Also I can’t see in your post where you say your experience below 2.7 is limited and from last year. I didn’t quite understand what you were saying which is why I was requesting clarification.
No offense man, but i think you missed my points.
You asked for base bombing requirements - you got an imho nice summary what is important.
In addition you received tnt values for the BR range 2.7 - 4.7 and 5.0+. Your own summary of my values was wrong as you assigned tnt values for non-respawning standard bases valid for 2.7 - 4.7 to lower BRs.
Furthermore i stated that my base bombing experience at your mentioned very low BRs (<2.7) is limited. I flew just around 130 matches there - in a single bomber and not in the aircraft models you mentioned. 130 matches compared to 10.000 overall matches is rather limited.
But 80% WR and just losing 2 planes in 130 matches in the Ju 88 A-1 should give you an indicator that you talk to a rather experienced Air RB pilot.
As you permanently referred to EC charts, it looked for me that you play EC, and without having checked your stats it seemed a good idea to add an EC tag.
So i am not really sure what the purpose of your latest post was.
There is a very simple and concise new bomb chart. Because I’m currently working on one.
The bomb tables you’re talking about are mostly outdated. You can check out me updated one here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oNwp_MXszU5J2dcaz5IoCtSAQ-infPdOWhwtJXqtrwU/edit?usp=sharing
You can’t just work with set TNT equivalents for the BR brackets, that’s not how bombing works anymore. Since… I think 1.73, I’m not completely sure, base damage is also heavily dependant on the number of bombs.
In simple terms, many small bombs are better than one large bomb of the same weight equivalent.
For example the russian FAB-3000 on the IL-28 can’t destroy a base anymore, it just can’t. The 4 x FAB-500 bombs can tho, although they have less total TNT equivalent.
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Exactly.
A perfect example is the B7A2 - now introduced with the Battle Pass as a premium. As i fly currently nothing else but the TT version and a lot of newer players will use the event plane:
The “small bomb bonus” is extremely helpful if you want to kill a standard (= non-respawning) base. U need roughly 0.5 tons of TNT to kill a standard base - the 800 kg bomb has only 0.429 tons of TNT - so not enough. If you drop 9 x 60 kg (= 540 kg and 0,229 tons of TNT) you kill the base.
The main issue with your planned overview is that it looks like a hell of work - and from my pov you need to be transparent for the fellow pilots relying on the data in your file also regarding the economic aspect (=SL/RP income) of various loadouts.
I play just for fun so idc about income or RP gain, but afaik the earnings are mainly connected to dropped TNT value, so it might be possible that using smaller bombs will produce less income. I would have tested it, but the grinding event created an insane amount of bot bombers / suicide Wyverns; almost impossible to get a chance to kill a standard (= non-respawning) base.
GL with your project!
Am I missing something? From my tests it took 13 x 60 kg bombs in the 3.7-4.7 bracket… Were you playing realistic battles? Was it a 3 base map maybe?
Mhm - i wrote:
So yes, i play at 3.7 in Air RB - covering the 2.7 - 4.7 BR range. And a standard base is imho clear enough. Have in mind that we still have 3 maps with 4 standard (=non-respawning) bases left:
Operation Iskra
Huerttgen 2nd battle
Moscow 1941
Gaijin took France 1944 out of rotation, but the other 3 are still available.
My concerns go specifically regarding SL gains (as described earlier) and from my pov the small bomb bonus seem not to work on the enemy airfield…
Have a good one!
Keep in mind magnetic mines simply don’t explode anymore in air rb. Learned this the hard way when I dropped four of them on the enemy airfield for a total of 2 tons explosive mass and they simply didn’t explode (tried this on time fuse and assault fuse with same results).
Saw a bug report a few days ago:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/TH4phyzTTQNt
You might consider to add a click on “i have the same issue” in order to support the report.
Commentary on the the users that answered the post;
Incredibly informative and concise answers. You should consider making <10minute Youtube tutorials as there really isn’t enough that isn’t bloated with irrelevant or inaccurate information.
Personally in RB 3.3 - 5.0 I select the biggest bombs available and go for glory. Possibility of being sniped by a patient Chad after carefully side climbing an eternity is high.
IMO not worth overthinking a bomber run in these BR’s, hitting a base with your bombs is a victory already.
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Short update. I’ve continued updating my chart and as of now, have entered the values for 7 nations. Only Italy, Israel and Sweden are missing. You can view them on the page “Detailed Chart”.
These values should be accurate to my knowledge. They also account for base bleed.
After I’m finished with the detailed chart I will also be overhauling the loadouts.
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Thanks so much! You’re a legend mate.
1 Like