What are the differences between the Ki-45 variants?

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Alright, so I’ve been working on figuring out the differences between the four Ki-45 variants (tei at 1.7, otsu at 2.3, hei at 2.3, ko at 2.7). Now, how Gaijin has these vehicles sorted and foldered is a mystery that humanity shall likely never be able to comprehend, but that’s an existential crisis for another day.

So, I was wondering what the differences between these four planes were, and what warranted them being placed in such a large spread of BRs.

I’ve looked a little bit into it myself so far, and here’s what I’ve found. The tei and ko mods are specified to be interceptor aircraft while the otsu and hei mods are specified as strike aircraft. I think that these designations are wrong, but I’ll get to that in a minute.

The main differences that I’ve seen from the stat cards at least mainly boil down to the guns, the amount of ammo they can carry, and the bomb loadouts. Let’s go over them one by one:

Ki-45 tei - Interceptor - 1.7

  • 37 mm Ho-203 cannon (15 rounds)
  • 20 mm Ho-5 cannon (x2) (200 rounds)
  • 2 50kg bombs, 2 100kg bombs, or 2 250kg bombs

Ki-45 otsu - Strike - 2.3

  • 12.7 mm Ho-103 machine gun (x2) (700 rounds)
  • 37 mm Type 98 cannon (16 rounds)
  • 2 250kg bombs

Ki-45 ko - Interceptor - 2.7

  • 12.7 mm Ho-103 machine gun (x2) (700 rounds)
  • 20 mm Ho-3 cannon (100 rounds)
  • No suspended armaments

Ki-45 hei - Strike - 2.3

  • 37 mm Ho-203 cannon (15 rounds)
  • 20 mm Ho-3 cannon (100 rounds)
  • 2 50kg bombs, 2 100kg bombs, or 2 250kg bombs

Okay, so now that we can see all of that, this is where I start having questions. It looks like that they’re split into two categories, Ki-45s with a cannon and 2 MGs, and Ki-45s with two (or three) cannons. This would make sense if the ones with only cannons were given the same designations, but nope! One that has three cannons and the best bomb loadout is classified as an interceptor while one with machine guns and a much more limited ground strike loadout is classified as a strike loadout. Looking at it, I’m fairly sure that the designation of the tei and otsu mods should be completely flipped, as the hei seems from weapon load to be a strike aircraft as listed, and it seems to be almost identical to the tei, same thing with the otsu and ko mods both looking very similar as interceptors.

Not only that, but the battle rating changes just seem strange. As stated previously, the tei and hei modifications seem almost identical in weapons and loadouts, but the tei is at 1.7 while the hei is at 2.3. There is also a similar disparity between the ko and otsu mods. I understand that the cannons might be marginally better on the higher BR ones, but does that change really warrant a full 1.7 to 2.7 spread in BR?

I couldn’t find anything on the wiki that states that their airframes were different in any way shape and or form, nor could I find anything else online stating the differences. Overall, the BRs, designations, and way that these four planes are foldered and placed in the tech tree seems completely non-sensical. It appears on the surface that Gaijin picked them by throwing darts blindfolded rather than anything that actually made sense. However, the fact that it seems so random makes me almost think that they had some valid reasoning behind that.

So, would any of you have any more insight to solve this puzzling situation? Are the engines/airframes actually different unlike what the wiki says? Is there perhaps some archaic magic that warrants the Ki-45 ko being at 2.7 while the Ki-45 tei sits at 1.7, despite only having small differences in the guns they carry? Any help would be appreciated, even if that help is just saying, “Welp, Gaijin will be Gaijin.”

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In the grand scheme of matters, the differences between the variants is “limited” and the bigger importance of the variation between the examples is even more limited.

Battle ratings are derived most basically from Gaijin’s statistics on matters…calling BRs “earned” is a bit of a misnomer, as BRs are assigned often in spite of clear disparities.

I mention the above because the likeliest explanation for the Ki-45s’ situation is (at least in part) legacy statistics…the inertia of “really bad/good” statistical performance dragging on/pushing up the vehicles’ BRs. The ease of use regarding armament and the meta of the game in AF/GFs also sways these things as an element that effects the statistics…

Gaijin’s BRs are capricious and the logic behind decisions such as this can charitably be described as “spotty.”

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The bombs have only just been added so the BRs are legacy being based on the gun only gameplay. Small changes in guns, armour and performance can have a disproportionate effect at such low BRs.

I expect (hope) they will all be reassessed in the next round of BR rejigs. But this will depend on several factors - will Gaijjn even bother? Do new players even fly them? Have existing players gone back and reflown them enough for Gaijin to see any stat changes?

Honestly as they are Tier I expect nothing to change even though they are definitely more useful now, especially those with attacker classification in arcade. If the players/stats arent there they will probably be ignored along with other forgotten/bypassed vehicles.

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True that, the snail is slow as ever to change or fix anything that doesn’t net them a noticeable amount of money. However, I suppose that I can’t fault them for that, as I would likely do the same.

I’ve decided that I’m going to play around with all of them and reply back to this topic with a detailed report on how each of the variants work and feel. I’ve actually been having a lot of fun with the Ki-45. I’ve only played the Japanese Air Tech Tree really, so the last time I played any of them was right after I started playing the game. Going back to them a few years later now that I’m almost done with the tech tree, they’re way more fun than I remembered. They feel very different from a lot of other Japanese planes, and all have their own quirks to them.

Honestly, I’m actually beginning to see why they have the designations and BRs that they do. Perhaps my mind is failing and giving way to insanity, but I think the devs might have actually made a few acceptable choices! Again, I’ll do a full review of my findings here in a few days most likely, so stay tuned!

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So the important thing to remember about the Ki-45s (Toryus) is the order in BR is not the same as the order they were fielded.

The Toryu-ko was first, it was the original design meant for bomber escort/interceptor. It’s actually the best in game because it’s not overloaded with weapons and can actually duel with other twin-engine fighters pretty well as a result. (In real life it got wrecked by P-40s regularly, just like the early Bf 110s did, for much the same reasons.)

It was replaced by the Toryu-otsu because the 20 mm/12mm armament couldn’t kill a B-17, so they gave it a tank gun. This made sense in real life, but in WT terms the extra weight and lower ROF effectively knocks it down a BR. Then came the hei which replaced the 12.7s with 20s, same reason. Because both these variants kinda sucked even worse as day interceptors than the ko, in the field both models were fitted with bomb racks and switched to naval strike duties to get at least some use out of them (as happened to the 110s as well). That’s why they’re strike planes in game now.

The Toryu-tei was the last variant. Again following the Bf 110 progression through roles, it replaced the forward armament with the 2x 20 mms pointing up Schrage Musik style to make a night fighter/interceptor (without radar against B-29s it was pretty useless, and the loss of most forward firing guns makes it the worst version in game). In this case the bombracks are just a leftover from the previous models, even though the plane’s role had changed from naval strike to night fighter. In real life they didn’t take the capability back off, so why not? By this time in the war most were being allocated to the Kamikaze program anyway.

If there’s any discrepancy here, it’s that the German Bf. 110 G-4 keeps its strike designation for it’s final -form night fighter model (in part because it also keeps the bombs), whereas the Toryu-tei does not.

(Remember ko-otsu-hei-tei are just the Japanese kanji for “a-model, b-model, c-model and d-model”). Helps to make sense when in this case the BRs are basically going backwards as the war goes on.)

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The Ki-45 Tei has Schräge Musik, which is probably why it is the only one designated as an Interceptor.

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And thats why I love War Thunder community. There is always somebody prepared to give you masterclass history/technical lesson, regardless of which topic do you fancy at the moment:)

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If you want to really blow your mind, the Ki-102 and Ki-108 are basically later improvements to the same plane, and the J1N1 and J5N1 are basically the naval version of the same spec. (Think Spitfire/Seafire). So you’re basically flying the same plane eight times (nine with the Ki-96 premium) as you level up.

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I know, right? The people here are quite the magnificent treasure trove of military engineering and history. 'Tis probably one of the reasons we all love (and hate) the game so much.

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I’ve been going back through and playing a lot of the planes early in the tech tree now that I have some semblance of game sense, and I realize now that a lot of the Japanese props are way more fun than when I first played them. The bombers and dive bombers are still quite a slog (apart from the G8N1), but the fighters are still as amazing as ever, and the interceptors/heavy fighters especially have been quite the blast! I greatly appreciate the sage wisdom you have dropped in this thread.

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I think the most interesting thing to take note of here is how the game was balanced and decompressed before jets were introduced.

We’re seeing a 1.0 BR gap for things such as armament and ammo count on the same airframe applied across 6.0 BRs and 4-5 ranks for about 10 years of aircraft innovation.

The first 3 Jet BRs live in 2 ranks and represents 30+ years of aircraft development. A 1.0 BR gap is the difference between a plane from the early 50s against one with missiles, an after burner and/or countermeasures.

It’s bananas.

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Also, another odd thing that I found whilst spading all of the Ki-45 variants for my very important and life altering upcoming review of all of them, for some reason the Hei modification has a substantially higher SL cost for purchase, as well as much higher RP and SL costs for its modifications. No idea what that’s about, but it is interesting to note I suppose, for completion’s sake.

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Alright, after blasting the Ark OST and playing a bunch with the Ki-45s in Air RB, I have finally spaded all four variants. Therefore, I shall here place my thoughts and comments more for my future self if I play these planes again than anyone else.

First some general things about all of the Ki-45s. They all have decent maneuverability for heavy fighters/strike aircraft/interceptors, but worse armor and survivability than those of other nations (go figure, it’s Japan). For their respective BRs, the speed they exhibit is respectable, especially by the standards of Japanese planes. It must also be noted that their climb speed is simply sublime, combined with the forwards interceptor air spawn allowing you to pretty much get an energy advantage on the entire other team. Another thing that I’ve found to be impressive is not only how much speed they can gain in a dive, but how little the controls lock up. Not only can you get to 500+ kph while diving, but the plane still controls really well. Seriously, it’s a weird feeling for this rank.

The downsides are that the tail gunners are fairly useless, though not as bad as many other Japanese tail gunners at this rank. The engines are also very prone to overheating on anything but the coldest maps. While your turn time is good, it’s not as good as any designated turn fighters. I like to think of these planes as nimble, not agile if that makes any sense. If you go into these planes expecting a typical heavy strike aircraft, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Now, onto the specifics of each variant. Thanks again to Bruce_R1 above, who has given a magnificent description of the history and the rational of why they all function as they do.

Ki-45 tei - BR 1.7 - Interceptor Designation

Out of all the variants, this one is by far the strangest. It has only a single forward armament, a massive 37mm cannon with 15 shots. It also has two cannons in Schräge Musik configuration and a full selection of bombs.

This entire plane feels like a gimmick. The main cannon is simply funny to try and hit shots with (though satisfying if done, as they one shot anything at this BR), but requires a lot of careful aim and very, very blind opponents. The Schräge Musik cannons likewise are fairly useless unless the enemy is flying in a perfectly straight line above you, though this too is fun to use just for the novelty of it. The bombs seem very out of place, but the reason for that was explained above by Bruce_R1.

Overall, this variant seems very high skill low reward, but incredibly fun to play just because there’s nothing quite like it in its oddities.

Final verdict for the tei: This is an oddball of a plane which should only be used if you want to mess around and have fun and also already have a decent amount of skill at the game.

Ki-45 otsu - BR 2.3 - Strike Designation

The otsu variant feels the most middle of the road of all the variants. It has a large cannon for either bombers or tanks, though less powerful than the big cannon on the other Ki-45s. It also has machine guns with more ammo than the cannons of the ko or hei modifications, but they do a bit less damage. It can also carry just the largest bombload of the Ki-45s, two 250kg bombs.

The otsu seems to be able to serve any roll, using its bombs and large cannon for ground strike or using its machine guns with higher ammo for basic dogfighting. It seems to just be decent at most things. A jack of all trades, master of none of the Ki-45 family if you will.

Final verdict for the otsu: Use this one if you want a Ki-45 which can do any roll.

Ki-45 hei - BR 2.3 - Strike Designation

The hei has a large cannon similar to the otsu, but two additional cannons instead of machine guns with much less ammo. It can carry any of the bombs available to the Ki-45 family. An issue I noticed is that the cannons are very inaccurate and follow very different flight paths, enhancing the problems of your already low ammo count even more.

I believe that the hei is the best choice in the Ki-45 family for strike. The low firing rate and ammo count of all its cannons make it very difficult to dogfight with. While it can be fun for bomber hunting, the multiple large caliber cannons and respectable bomb loadout are definitely the best choices out of all the Ki-45s for CAS. I will also note that for some reason, the hei feels a little heavier than the other variants. Perhaps I’m just imagining it, but I felt like it couldn’t turn quite as well.

Also, as I’ve recently noticed whilst spading all of the variants and looking at the wiki pages, the hei takes substantially more SL and RP to research and purchase all the modifications than the other Ki-45s. It also happens to take more SL to purchase. For what I honestly find to be one of the harder Ki-45s to play, I do not understand this.

Final verdict for the hei: Use for bomber intercepts or CAS only.

Ki-45 ko - BR 2.7 - Interceptor Designation

This Ki-45 throws out the slow firing cannons and just gets a bunch of relatively fast firing cannons and machine guns. It has no bomb loadouts.

This Ki-45 seems like the most obvious interceptor/fighter out of the group. It turns decently, flies well, has a good ammo pool, and has a much easier time hitting the shots than the other variants. If you’re looking for which Ki-45 is the best to play in an air combat role, it’s probably the ko. There’s not much to say, this one is just fun to play.

Final verdict for the ko: Best fighter/interceptor of the Ki-45 family.

Well, that’s a wrap on that. Time to look at all the other things that I could have done with this time that are infinitely more beneficial to my life going forwards. Thank you all for coming to my TED talk.

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Quite true. I do understand it though. During WW2, they were coming out with new inventions every other day. That seriously slowed down during the Cold War as there were more focuses on massive new technological leaps, and many of the vehicles created never made it off the drawing board due to them practically requiring magic to function. In order to keep the same density of vehicle in each rank, Gaijin has decided to cluster vehicles from a larger time period together.

Also, Gaijin has decided that all high tier vehicles have a high RP and SL cost, so while they could add a bunch of variants of every jet in game, you’d spend a month grinding out a plane with a mild radar improvement. Not only that, but the little changes have a much smaller impact on how to play the plane than at lower tiers. A slightly improved lift value for a plane is much more important when in a tier where dogfighting and climbing are the pertinent tactics over ARH slinging.

It really is quite interesting though to see how such a little change so vastly affects how you play a plane at such a low tier. I’ve honestly had a boatload of fun playing though the Ki-45s and checking them all out!

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Want to top the bananas? Climbing in your Tu-4 which is a 4-engine prop-driven long-range strategic bomber from the late 1940s. You struggle to climb, as you may face Korean War era jets.
And you look down.
And you see a F-117 stealth plane.

Tu-4 at BR 8.0
F-117 at BR 8.7

And you realize, that is only 0.7 difference.
IT COULD BE WORSE!

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