We need to address top tier MBTS with 3 crew/autoloaders

Here’s my gripe.

The survivability disparity between 4 man crew MBTS and 3 man crew MBTS with autoloaders has been widened more then ever with the introduction of spall liners in the latest update.

Certain TOP TIER 4 crew MBTS with their new spall liners are made way to survivable and is able to return fire after taking a shot to the hull.

3 man crew MBTS such as the ZTZ99A Type10 and the Leclerc will get one shotted when hit in the hull because the shot will likely kill 2/3 crew 9/10 times.

This makes engagements as 3 man crew MBTS extremely unfavorable against 4 man crew MBTS in situations such as flat terrain. Even if you get the first shot off. Said target is now every likely to survive with 3/4 or 1/2 crew left and able to return fire, one shotting you instead.

It also does not help when certain maps are often flat or are city maps with less positions to go hull down making it extremely hard to hide your vulnerable hull when pushing.

I’m infuriated that getting my first shot off into a the side of a STRV 122, only to knock out 1 crew and i get blasted back to the garage because the game now punishes me for taking shots at oblivious targets showing me their full broadside.

Idk maybe its just me. /rant


Definitely not just you, the Germans have been curb stomping top tier, and I don’t remember the last time I killed one with a single shot at their side hull with my top apfsds.

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You have to remeber, tanks with autoloders have a huge advantage when they lose a crew member, their reload speed is unaffected. Autoloaders aren’t damagable either, so you have that too.

The extra crew member is nice, but I’d rather have the autoloader in this game.


Four men crew being more survivable is literally the reason it is done in real life.
Russia favours autoloaders because it reduces the number of conscripts that must be recruited and trained by 33%, not because it increases their survivability.

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It reduces it by 25% from four to three 🤓☝️

Sorry you’re right, if they had to train a fourth member it would increase it by 33% is what I should have said.

Yes but for Russian MBTS.
Gaijin has balanced the survivability of T72Bs, T80BVM T80U and T90M with fuel tanks that can eat an entire apfsds round and kontak5 side armor that is capable of occasionally nullify said round.

That is not the case for the other autoloaders, the ZTZ99a and Type 10 fuel tanks frequently kills them when struck.


Anyone who served with the tank corps will tell you that a 4 member crew is superior to a 3 member crew.
If you think beyond the action, like maintenance, sleep requirements, guard duty and so on…a 4th team member is a significant point to have a well rested crew.

This is why certain nations will continue with 4 member teams instead of going with an auto-loader and be done with it.

For the game we all get well rested people anyways, so it doesn’t matter and I rather play with nations with an auto loader (like Japan) than a manual loader. Just don’t get shot at :)


Russian bias isn’t new.


Yes i get that from a historically point of view.
But to clarify I’m seeking for game balance here.
it is not fair that you have to dunk 2-4 rounds into the side of a 2a7 where they can just one tap you if your hull is exposed.
Sure in hull down its fair game but my point is, when both are on flat terrain the advantage goes overwhelmingly to the 4 crew 2a7.

I understand your point and I do mostly agree with it.

I find it difficult to shoot halfway across the map to try and hit a barrel so I can follow up with another 1-2 shots to destroy the target.
However, there is a difference in tank design and that neds to be represented somehow.
If you drive straight into the midst of the battle, then you’ll suffer. You have to play the strengths of your tank, and that is usually a better Generation of Gunner Thermals than German tanks.
You’ve got (unless you play Russia) a good mobility, speed and a fast loading gun…flank the battlefield, use the terrain and you’ll do better.

Maybe they should make 4 crew tanks reload slower while moving fast to keep a balance and it is also realistic that human loader can’t working as fast as standing stable when the tank is moving

I managed 10 rounds per minute as loader on the Leo 2A4 :)

After a minute it drops though :D

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10 rpm while moving? That’s quite impressive.

It is a lot more stable than you think.
Also, most of the time the tank won’t shoot while moving, so that gives you the time to get the next round out of the ammo stack and hold it while the current round is being fired.

Wow, it must be exciting to be in a tank!
I once dreamed to drive a tank when I was a child, but unluckily, they sent me to a infantry unit when I was in the army :)

This is what it looks like :) On the left is how the training starts, on the right what a trained loader can do.



20% crews reduced by better radio given to the tank commander and 25% crews reduced for autoloading mechanism.

ZTZs act like Russian tanks, it isn’t getting one shotted lmao
Leclerc though, oof.

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This is what I’ve been saying for a long time. If you sacrifice a crew member (and thus survivability) to get an autoloader, you need to get something else in return :

  • Russian and Chinese MBTs are the only one to have hull armor in the game so they’re good.
  • Type 90 & Type 10 may not have armor, but they get 4 seconds of reload, so they’re good.

And then you’ve got the Leclerc … It is armored as a light tank and still has to put up with a 6 seconds reload. It also has the worst pen at top tier, now that the Challenger 3E was added to Britain, and its fuel tanks explode all the time for no reason.

Just sad.