War Thunder vs Birds Of Steel. Are we going backwards?

[dannaryan-psn]

Hello everyone.

As per the title really, for the longest time I’ve noticed that the quality of the game has been going downhill and almost all of the character of the game in its earlier phases has been sucked out over time due to Gaijin “fixing” what wasn’t broken and in general ignoring the blatant bugs that should’ve been fixed literally years ago.

Barring visual fidelity (but that isn’t a clear win for WT neither) War Thunder has degraded in almost every field of the game. Be that sound, gameplay, physics and its absolute weakest area which all of these contribute to… immersion.

To show actual proof of this a while back I dusted off the Ps3 and started playing the alpha to War Thunder… Birds of Steel. A game which has assets that War Thunder still uses to this day and a game that people to this day probably have exceptionally fond memories of.

So here’s a quick and no doubt badly made video comparison of Birds Of Steel vs War Thunder. Just as a disclaimer the video quality won’t be perfect as I had to record from a screen due to the Ps3 and Ps5 not being able to connect to a laptop for editing. But you’ll get the gist of how great we used to have it.

War Thunder vs Birds Of Steel, we're going backwards.

Gaijin, if any of you are reading this. Please give us back our meaty engine sounds, black out effects, fix your damage modelling and even give us the nice little things back like clouds making your aircraft canopy wet along with cockpit damage. The current game doesn’t have a single visceral bone in its body and it makes it feel ridiculously stale.

I know you can do it, because you’ve already done it as you can see above. The difference is night and day.

[AlvisWisla]

War Thunder buffeting is always around stall behavior.
War Thunder sounds now have cockpit closed, which is an improvement.
Cockpits and headgear correctly dampen sounds.

War Thunder pilots blackout after pulling hard Gs.
I see damage models were worse in Birds of Pray, where bombers were far less resilient to rounds and thus less realistic.

So I’m not sure how going forward is moving backwards.

[LostF0X]

First of all chapeau for all the effort to do that. Despite the quality of the video it’s perfectly clear the message. I don’t fly props in sim from… who knows when, but I remember playing few months ago a ki-84 in ground sim. Here on your video at least there’s a sort of stall, Hayate simply doesn’t. Try it mate, It’s like flying in sim with RB controls. I’m talkin’ about the premium of the chinese tree, but I guess the japanese one has the same flight model.
Tbh I quitted playing props, and I miss doing it, because of another issue: spotting. It’s terrible, literally destroys my eyes and client side clouds doesn’t make things any easier.

Sound has been changed because of players complaint. Maybe you can remember, many years ago, with several topic, because “inside a closed cockpit you cannot here incoming enemies by earing their engine”, in response gaijin made engine sound in general from outside harder to ear. And speaking of sound, nice choice for the songs.
Rain and snow… The snow storm in the early EC was so damn epic even if… falling snow with a clear blue sky xD. Night time battles too, maybe there’s still a screenshot from a replay on my live.
No need to say I’m the one in the 190 A8.

WT Live // Image by LostF0X

WT Live // Image by LostF0X

[dannaryan-psn]

@AlvisWisla

War Thunder buffeting is always around stall behavior.

The buffeting isn’t the issue, the lack of a stall is the problem as you can see in the video. There’s tons more aircraft that are completely missing stalls but as you can see the P-40 doesn’t stall, the Fw-190A barely stalls at all (and in general has a limp elevator at all speeds) and you saw exactly how the C.202 and F4U’s behave.

If I’m pulling hard on the stick the aircraft should buffet, stall, spin. Tell me where you saw that in the War Thunder video. Even with the 190A I had to fight it to make it stall.

@AlvisWisla

War Thunder sounds now have cockpit closed, which is an improvement.
Cockpits and headgear correctly dampen sounds.

War Thunder’s sounds are completely incorrect from both an immersion perspective and an accuracy perspective. In game you can barely hear your engine and what you do hear is extremely poor.

A chap I used to do work for was a British Airways pilot who for his birthday was treated to a 30 minute flight in a twin seat Spitfire Mk IX, I asked him how it sounded and in his own words “Very very loud, each time the exhausts crackled it was like a small explosion going off inside of the cockpit. Simply due to how loud it was I can say it sounds comfortably better outside of the aircraft than it does inside”.

To further back that up:
“The cockpit of a Supermarine Spitfire is extremely loud, with noise levels described as overwhelming and deafening, particularly during take-off and when the engine is at high power settings”

The link also goes into how state of the art sound deadening headsets aren’t enough to stop the sound.
Now bare in mind this aircraft won’t be flown anywhere near full power.

FAQs About Spitfire Flights, Lessons, & Spitfire Simulations

The Hawker Tempest (which uses the same sound as the Dora in game) was known for being uncomfortably loud to its pilots. There is absolutely zero correct about the in game engine sounds. It’s clear as day how much more powerful, accurate and immersive the older engine sounds were.

@AlvisWisla

War Thunder pilots blackout after pulling hard Gs.

No they don’t, they barely grey out as you can clearly see in my video and my crew aren’t even ace crews. I “blacked out” yanking the stick as hard as I could in the Dora as you could see and yet I could see everything perfectly. Compare both pullout videos between Birds Of Steel and War Thunder and try to tell me War Thunder is more “accurate”. Doing loops with a 300mph+ Macchi didn’t even get close to blacking me out.

@AlvisWisla

I see damage models were worse in Birds of Pray, where bombers were far less resilient to rounds and thus less realistic.

The older game’s damage models could be…odd… the funniest issue being that you can pound the left wing and the right wing would come off. That said there’s zero realism in War Thunder’s damage models and I won’t lie mate I find it slightly comical that you’d even try to defend it. In one of those clips only 2 historically weak Shvak rounds chopped the tail clean off of a He-111. In another clip only 8 rounds completely severed a wing. The fact you think this is accurate like I said is comical at best.

The Germans somewhat optimistically stated that 15-20 20mm cannon rounds were required to destroy a bomber and that’s with considerably more powerful MG-151’s in comparison to the Shvak. Better still they estimated 3-5 30mm rounds should destroy a bomber, you just witnesses the piddly Shvak take one down in as little as 2-8. Come on Alvis…

@AlvisWisla

So I’m not sure how going forward is moving backwards.

Moving backwards is moving backwards. Or as the saying goes “one step forwards and two steps back”.

@LostF0X

First of all chapeau for all the effort to do that. Despite the quality of the video it’s perfectly clear the message. I don’t fly props in sim from… who knows when, but I remember playing few months ago a ki-84 in ground sim. Here on your video at least there’s a sort of stall, Hayate simply doesn’t.

Cheers LostFox. The Ki-84 stalls now I think but I’m not 100%, that said the Raidens do not stall at all. You can feel when flying them that the elevator is too weak.

@LostF0X

Sound has been changed because of players complaint. Maybe you can remember, many years ago, with several topic, because “inside a closed cockpit you cannot here incoming enemies by earing their engine”, in response gaijin made engine sound in general from outside harder to ear.

I think it was changed originally due to VR players complaining because the sounds were “too loud”. Instead of just adjusting their settings we all now suffer with completely neutered crappy engine sounds. I remember this as I couldn’t believe it when it happened… you literally have engine sound sliders in the options of the game but instead of turning it down they whinged and moaned until our sounds got ruined.

Oddly they added the external aircraft sounds after we had the original nice sounds to add “immersion”.
The external aircraft sounds are completely separate to your own engine sounds.

I loved the night fights as well. I’d love it if we could have the stormy weather graphics back like in Birds Of Steel but with a sensibly low cloud level so fighters can fight clearly above the clouds.

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

ya really wanna understand how ALLISON V12 sounds same as Fw190 radial ive seen mobile games with better sounds for there props

[AlvisWisla]

@dannaryan-psn
Just because you didn’t stall out doesn’t mean you can’t.
It took no time to create buffeting and stall with the P-40 in War Thunder:

The P-40 only pulls 3.3Gs, so it’s not going to stall under its own power:

My engine settings are set to 27%, and if I set them to 100% the engines are loud.
Aircraft engines in War Thunder over-power Leopard 2 engines, which are the loudest tank engines.

The Dora pulls 4.8Gs, which isn’t enough to black out for pilots.

And C205 pulls 10Gs into an almost instant blackout:

Spoiler

War Thunder improved a bit on the older damage models

Edit:
You just used the wrong aircraft to do these tests with.
You should’ve used P-47s and A6M5s.

[AlvisWisla]

IDK how you consider these two different engine sounds as the same:

Some Spitfire ear candy as well before I switch my sound settings back to 27% for my own engine.

[FeetPics]

@dannaryan-psn

The buffeting isn’t the issue, the lack of a stall is the problem as you can see in the video. There’s tons more aircraft that are completely missing stalls but as you can see the P-40 doesn’t stall, the Fw-190A barely stalls at all (and in general has a limp elevator at all speeds) and you saw exactly how the C.202 and F4U’s behave.

If I’m pulling hard on the stick the aircraft should buffet, stall, spin. Tell me where you saw that in the War Thunder video. Even with the 190A I had to fight it to make it stall.

Fw-190 Stall

You can just pull on the stick at low speeds and it will wing stall. It seems that you are just complaining that other planes have higher stability margins than the Spitfire and also don’t have the ability to as readily pull past their critical AoA.

[dannaryan-psn]

@AlvisWisla

Just because you didn’t stall out doesn’t mean you can’t.
It took no time to create buffeting and stall with the P-40 in War Thunder:

No, what you just demonstrated was a power off stall. This isn’t what I’m talking about. Go full throttle (so maximum torque and airflow over the elevator) get to a respectable speed (200-300mph) and yank that stick as hard as you can in the P-40. Instead of stalling and then spinning if you keep stick pressure the aircraft just lazily rolls over. Now do the exact same thing in the Macchi’s, Corsair’s and I’m sure there’s plenty of other aircraft as well. At most you’ll get a micro-stall and then the aircraft will recover itself automatically.

@AlvisWisla

The P-40 only pulls 3.3Gs, so it’s not going to stall under its own power:

The P-40’s elevator is too weak in game this is my exact point, it absolutely should stall. Its behaviour should be similar to that of Birds of Steel and every aircraft in game with a correct flight model in regards to stalls such as the Spitfires, Dora’s, 109’s etc. Buffet, stall, spin.

@AlvisWisla

My engine settings are set to 27%, and if I set them to 100% the engines are loud.
Aircraft engines in War Thunder over-power Leopard 2 engines, which are the loudest tank engines.

Aircraft cockpit sounds are either too quiet or poor. You can literally hear it in the video I’ve provided, compared to Birds Of Steel the aircraft sounds are shockingly low quality. The Dora and I-16 in particular are awful, in some aircraft you can actually hear the prop spinning just as loud as the engine itself.

You are not sitting in a Rolls Royce or a Maybach, you are sitting in an aircraft with an insanely powerful engine up front with the only sound deadening equipment being what you’re wearing on your head and a thin instrument panel in front of you. I cannot find a single source that says any warbird was “quiet” in the cockpit. We need the engines to roar like they should… and like they clearly did.

@AlvisWisla

The Dora pulls 4.8Gs, which isn’t enough to black out for pilots.

That is not entirely correct as you can see in my video in the pull out my pilot clearly “blacked out”. You can see where the screen laughably goes slightly grey and the game wrenches control from me to simulate a black out.

@AlvisWisla

And C205 pulls 10Gs into an almost instant blackout:

That’s not blacked out Alvis… not even close. Again watch the Birds of steel video for far more realistic black out effects. I can still see everything perfectly in that screenshot you’ve provided. You’ve greyed out and stopped the exact same as with the Dora in my video when I pulled out of the dive.

Also it comes down to your pilot skill level. My pilot is “expert” crew level and that’s as much as I can black out. With an Ace crew level it’s probably nothing at all. Again you can see the stark differences in the video. In a prolonged 400km/h left turn my pilot starts realistically suffering from G effects in Birds of Steel. In War Thunder I can loop pulling as hard as I can from 500km/h and my screen barely dims…

Considering this is a WW2 aircraft and I’m not wearing a G suit my pilot should’ve been feeling pretty damn badly at the top of that loop.

@AlvisWisla

War Thunder improved a bit on the older damage models

Not really, in fact replaying Birds Of Steel the older game feels like it takes more to down aircraft than WT. BoS has its own shenanigans where aircraft can fall apart with enough hits to the fuselage but it takes far more than WT on average to do that. With Breda’s in WT I can rip P-47 wings off in small bursts. The only way you get quick kills with those in BoS is with an engine fire or pilot snipe.

@AlvisWisla

You just used the wrong aircraft to do these tests with.
You should’ve used P-47s and A6M5s.

Using a P-47 or Zero to show a P-40/Macchi/F4U not stalling correctly etc doesn’t exactly seem productive…

@AlvisWisla

Some Spitfire ear candy as well before I switch my sound settings back to 27% for my own engine.

The Spitfire has one of the better sounds but it’s too high pitched. In cockpit videos on YouTube show that the Merlin has a V8’esque growl to it. War Thunder has it modelled but the high pitched sound completely drowns it out.

@FeetPics

You can just pull on the stick at low speeds and it will wing stall. It seems that you are just complaining that other planes have higher stability margins than the Spitfire and also don’t have the ability to as readily pull past their critical AoA.

I might be wrong but that looks like a 190F or maybe A-8 which I haven’t tested. Watch the A-5 in my video and tell me if that’s accurate. That’s with 100% sensitivity and 1x multiplier.

Having higher stability margins isn’t the issue, some aircraft should have more stability than others due to wing design and weight bias. The issue is that every aircraft should stall and spin if stick pressure isn’t released. A Cessna with a high lift wing and 10% of the engine power some aircraft have in game will stall when flown incorrectly. The 190A was known to give plenty of warning of a stall before it occurs but then have a violent wing drop/rollover when it does happen. In War Thunder as you could see in the video I can push beyond the buffet and either control it just with ailerons (definitely shouldn’t help) or just yank it and it’ll fly straight and true before finally rolling over. It should be a snap… not a slow roll… and the reason this is the case is due to the lack of torque modelled and the weak elevator which also hurts manoeuvrability.

To clarify the 190 used to have a superb flight model… but then people complained it was “too hard” and it got nerfed into the ground. Which was a massive shame as better pilots actually said it made the 190A far more agile.

Some aircraft do not stall, some aircraft need to be forced to stall and some aircraft have magical stall recovery despite constantly pulling the stick. No matter which way you cut it this is completely wrong and the older game despite its issues clearly did it better.

[AlvisWisla]

@dannaryan-psn
The P-40 cannot pull enough AOA to cause instability.
This is one of the reasons P-40 was replaced mid-war.
This is what’s called realism.
I don’t know why you’re complaining that War Thunder is more realistic…

Also my screenshots are literally the C205 pilot being blacked out…

@dannaryan-psn

it’s too high pitched

What sound do you think air makes when it goes fast?
High pitch is realistic. It is what you hear IRL. Bad microphones IRL might not pick up the sounds.

[dannaryan-psn]

@AlvisWisla

The P-40 cannot pull enough AOA to cause instability.
This is one of the reasons P-40 was replaced mid-war.
This is what’s called realism.
I don’t know why you’re complaining that War Thunder is more realistic…

Except according to the official flight manual that’s not correct at all.

"15. The stalling characteristics of this aircraft are good. At minimum speed the stall is gentle and there is some buffeting and pitching before the wing, generally the right, drops gently, followed by the nose.

At high speed the machine can be stalled as a result of the coarse use of the elevators producing high acceleration loadings, but due warning is received, particularly on the high speed turn, by a shuddering of the aircraft, and loads of over 5g. can be applied to 180 to 200 m.p.h. without the aircraft stalling."

So yes, the aircraft is stable which I never denied. But what we have in War Thunder is not historical at all… the manual itself states that yanking the stick will cause a stall. This is not the case in War Thunder because as you yourself have said you cannot get enough force through the elevator to do so.

@AlvisWisla

Also my screenshots are literally the C205 pilot being blacked out…

No… your screen shots are a slightly darkened not much beyond greyed screen… I can still see everything in the screen. Compare that to the older game and I’m not even fully blacked out here neither.

Here you’ll go completely blacked out especially if I kept pulling. On WT on your own screenshot I can see perfectly. For blacking out your vision is superb…

@AlvisWisla

What sound do you think air makes when it goes fast?
High pitch is realistic. It is what you hear IRL. Bad microphones IRL might not pick up the sounds.

It’s too high pitched because the engine note is too high pitched… I can pull multiple Spitfire cockpit videos where you can clearly hear there’s a low pitch v8 rumble to the Spitfire’s engine note. That said in a depressing turn the Spitfire is arguably the best sounding aircraft in game along with the Griffons. The rest are atrocious. There’s no way you can tell me with a straight face that you see no issues with WT’s engine notes… especially when compared with the vastly superior sounds from BoS.

[FeetPics]

@dannaryan-psn

I might be wrong but that looks like a 190F or maybe A-8 which I haven’t tested. Watch the A-5 in my video and tell me if that’s accurate. That’s with 100% sensitivity and 1x multiplier.

All of the Fw-190s have similar stall characteristics so the model is largely irrelevant. I routinely use A-4 through D-9 and they all have the same issue where they will eventually drop the wing due to asymmetric lift; especially when conducting roll and pull maneuvers down to low speed. Fw-190 is also much less forgiving in respects to its rudder use than other planes.

@dannaryan-psn

Having higher stability margins isn’t the issue, some aircraft should have more stability than others due to wing design and weight bias. The issue is that every aircraft should stall and spin if stick pressure isn’t released. A Cessna with a high lift wing and 10% of the engine power some aircraft have in game will stall when flown incorrectly. The 190A was known to give plenty of warning of a stall before it occurs but then have a violent wing drop/rollover when it does happen. In War Thunder as you could see in the video I can push beyond the buffet and either control it just with ailerons (definitely shouldn’t help) or just yank it and it’ll fly straight and true before finally rolling over. It should be a snap… not a slow roll… and the reason this is the case is due to the lack of torque modelled and the weak elevator which also hurts manoeuvrability.

Getting an asymmetric stall in a Cessna is extremely difficult. Most of the time it will drop the nose and practically automatically recover. That is the design intention of inherently stable airplanes.

@dannaryan-psn

To clarify the 190 used to have a superb flight model… but then people complained it was “too hard” and it got nerfed into the ground. Which was a massive shame as better pilots actually said it made the 190A far more agile.

This point is nonsense. Gaijin did not change the flight model due to complaints of random sim players. They normalized all A-5s around the A-5/U-14 a few months after it was added.

Even the previous Fw-190 FM was not very good in regards to being actually competitive. The overheating change also made it much worse relative to its competition.

@dannaryan-psn

Some aircraft do not stall, some aircraft need to be forced to stall and some aircraft have magical stall recovery despite constantly pulling the stick. No matter which way you cut it this is completely wrong and the older game despite its issues clearly did it better.

What makes you think that having relatively easy to recover stalls and spins is unrealistic?

These are from the P-51D flight manual regards to stalls and spins. Looks like the plane is relatively easy to fly to me as the recovery is very basic and intuitive.

[LostF0X]

I was trying to achieve a black out. To my surprise even with a non skilled crew, and in a jet at high speed, you don’t go full black as it was in the past. Even though the pilot loses consciousness, but regains immediately control. Kinda weird.
Tried some stalls too. Macchi 205 can easily go stick to the balls at any speed without any particular issue. Years ago it was harder to fly, now you don’t need to use rudder at all during a turn and if a wing drops a bit it auto recovers. Even the spitfire, that was a hell to fly, is way more user friendly even though a wing drops constantly, but it’s easy to recover and you don’t end in a flat spin anymore like in the past.

[dannaryan-psn]

@FeetPics

All of the Fw-190s have similar stall characteristics so the model is largely irrelevant.

No, they don’t. The Dora’s have drastically different stall characteristics and are far more eager to stall. If anything possibly even too eager.

@FeetPics

Getting an asymmetric stall in a Cessna is extremely difficult. Most of the time it will drop the nose and practically automatically recover. That is the design intention of inherently stable airplanes.

A Cessna won’t “automatically recover”. If the aircraft is in an accelerated stall you have to neutralize the stick as otherwise even a Cessna has the possibility of falling into a spin. This is my exact point. I can fly a 1000hp+ aircraft in WT and continuously yank on the stick and it’ll either not stall or certain aircraft can magically recover from the stall even though I’m still pulling on the stick which is the literal worst thing a pilot can do. Your own source even states:

“Return the stick to neutral”. Essentially continued pulling of the stick is guaranteed to make things worse. Now watch the Macchi and F4U again in my video and tell me what happens when I continue to pull the stick… Hopefully you can see my point now.

Also why are you using a P-51D flight manual about powered off stalls to argue the case in regards to the Folgore, Corsair, 190A and the Warhawk? That’s like arguing a Ferrari doesn’t drive correctly in Assetto Corsa because my Aston Martin drives nothing like it.

Also as a side note if you read pilot reports regarding the P-51D in a powered on stall I think you’ll find it’s not exactly “docile”. But this is besides the point as I’ve not even mentioned the P-51D as it seems “Okay”.

I’ve already provided the stalling characteristics of the Warhawk to Alvis in my previous post where the aircraft can most definitely be stalled by misuse of the stick. Now again watch my video and tell me where the stall is.

[LostF0X]

i found another interesting and pretty weird thing about stall. F-86 sabre, if during a turn (irrelevant if on vertical or just flat) you deploy combat flaps the wing drops instantly. It’s literally impossible to use flaps during a fight

[Mora]

It´s common that extending the flaps lowers the critical angle of attack of the wing because the wing camber increases. However in some aircraft in WT this is clearly exaggerated/arbitary.

Critical aingle of attack

[FeetPics]

@dannaryan-psn

A Cessna won’t “automatically recover”. If the aircraft is in an accelerated stall you have to neutralize the stick as otherwise even a Cessna has the possibility of falling into a spin. This is my exact point. I can fly a 1000hp+ aircraft in WT and continuously yank on the stick and it’ll either not stall or certain aircraft can magically recover from the stall even though I’m still pulling on the stick which is the literal worst thing a pilot can do. Your own source even states:

In order to get a Cessna into a spin you practically have to force it to.

@dannaryan-psn

“Return the stick to neutral”. Essentially continued pulling of the stick is guaranteed to make things worse. Now watch the Macchi and F4U again in my video and tell me what happens when I continue to pull the stick… Hopefully you can see my point now.

If you continue to pull back on P-51 while it stalls and enters a spin…it will spin even worse. In fact it technically recovers slower than the book says it should.

@dannaryan-psn

Also why are you using a P-51D flight manual about powered off stalls to argue the case in regards to the Folgore, Corsair, 190A and the Warhawk? That’s like arguing a Ferrari doesn’t drive correctly in Assetto Corsa because my Aston Martin drives nothing like it.

Because it is a plane that we have a flight manual for. Your citations in regards to the way planes should stall in the game so far has amounted to “see…it doesn’t work the way that I think it should”.

Here is a demonstration of the F4U-4B Corsair. If you keep the stick back…it will spin until it crashes. If you neutralize the stick and do no input it will not recover either.

F4U 4B Stall

Here is the Raiden…a plane that you said does not stall at all. Here it is stalling and spinning.

Raiden Stall

The gist of your argument is that you think every plane should be much more prone to accelerated stalls and that would somehow make the game better.

[dannaryan-psn]

@FeetPics

In order to get a Cessna into a spin you practically have to force it to.

But it CAN stall as you just admitted yourself. I’m doing everything I can to make the Macchi/Corsair/P-40 stall… each a 1000hp and over warbird and nothing. At best the wing drops and then it auto recovers magically which defeats the laws of physics.

@FeetPics

If you continue to pull back on P-51 while it stalls and enters a spin…it will spin even worse.

As it should this is my exact point I’ve been making for a while now and one of the main things I’m trying to highlight with this thread. So now tell me why I’m wrong for saying continuing to pull through a “micro stall” in game with the Corsair and the Macchi’s with ZERO repercussions is wrong? With a continued pull each aircraft should buffet… stall…spin. I’m glad you’re agreeing with me now.

@FeetPics

Because it is a plane that we have a flight manual for. Your citations in regards to the way planes should stall in the game so far has amounted to “see…it doesn’t work the way that I think it should”.

Not at all. I’ve provided a direct quote from the Warhawk’s flight manual that it should stall with accelerated elevator inputs and it clearly doesn’t. It’s also simple physics, if an aircraft’s wing drops in a stall it will develop into a snap roll at best or a spin if you continue yanking on the stick. Not what is happening (with video evidence) on War Thunder.

@FeetPics

Here is a demonstration of the F4U-4B Corsair. If you keep the stick back…it will spin until it crashes. If you neutralize the stick and do no input it will not recover either.

The F4U4B is better but that’s not the Corsair I tested (the cockpit is blatantly different). That’s twice now you’ve used different aircraft in an effort to disprove blatant video evidence. I’m also showing the stick with no rudder input as well. If you’re flicking the rudder you’re not doing a true test.

@FeetPics

Here is the Raiden…a plane that you said does not stall at all. Here it is stalling and spinning.

That’s interesting… because.

J2M lack of stall-War Thunder.

It’s a different model Raiden but as you can clearly see this does not stall unless I force it to with the rudder… Tested from 300mph down to 140mph. I even repeatedly yank the stick and nothing. So seeing as your Raiden stalls will you admit that something is drastically wrong with this one? Because the Raiden definitely did stall in reality but was found difficult to put into a spin. Happy to provide sources.

So once again, yes… there is something clearly wrong with this Raiden.

@FeetPics

The gist of your argument is that you think every plane should be much more prone to accelerated stalls and that would somehow make the game better.

No I believe that aircraft should fly as realistically as possible and some clearly are not. P-40’s could stall with sharp elevator inputs (like all aircraft)… they don’t. The earlier Corsairs were known for prickly stalls and yet in game… they don’t. They also magically recover from the stall even with the stick pulled into your guts which you have even just said yourself “it should make it worse” as per the P-51D. The Macchi’s are the exact same and at least one Raiden isn’t stalling at all unless I force it with the rudder and 190A’s have unrealistically weak elevators as once again I have clearly proven.

So considering the aircraft do stall in Birds of Steel… and the aircraft stalled in reality… please tell us all how War Thunder is more accurate considering they do not stall here.

[WalterNowotny-psn]

Great topic and thanks for the hard work. I finally have a stick without wobble after 8 years plus and can finally enjoy the different model’s performance much more. I love flying many different types of aircraft (try not to stick to one for each country). I do not have a great background on the capability of the different models but do enjoy trying to manage each one based on its characteristics (for me). I do miss some of the old damage models but did not see them long as I was usually quickly dispatched. One thing I have notice having watched the different clips is that we all suffer the hazy days and cockpit glare (thought i was the only one dealing with it because of the PS5) thank goodness. It was really neat seeing some of the old items you brought to light and the pro/con banter. One day I’m gonna be a better 190 pilot:)

[dannaryan-psn]

@WalterNowotny-psn

One thing I have notice having watched the different clips is that we all suffer the hazy days and cockpit glare (thought i was the only one dealing with it because of the PS5) thank goodness. It was really neat seeing some of the old items you brought to light and the pro/con banter. One day I’m gonna be a better 190 pilot:)

Hi Walter! I remember seeing you back on Birds Of Steel. Those were the days.

You’re a great 190 pilot fella don’t sell yourself short. I’ve been in quite a few matches with you now where you’ve had quite a few kills and I can guarantee you’re a better 190 pilot than me!

On top of the glare there’s also some funky cockpit reflections at times with certain aircraft that blind you from checking your six. Dare I say it all issues we never had back in Birds Of Steel.