I’m sure.
MANPADS are entirely different systems that are irrelevant to the topic.
Look up his playercard if you don’t believe me? lmfao
Sure. Anything that disproves your rhetoric is irrelevant I guess. Are you also going to ignore how they can’t be bothered to model hellfires properly, and instead actively gimp them with their flight trajectory?
You won’t hit a Jet going 800kph with a Vikhr unless it’s flying straight for you.
MANPADS and Vikhr have a lot in common, both are rolling airframe missiles with single plane controls.
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I already have. What about it?
It doesn’t disprove my “rhetoric”, it introduces an irrelevant topic that has nothing to do with this discussion. MANPADS changes have nothing to do with Hellfire trajectory issues, Ataka responsiveness and overcorrections, or the jokes that are Starstreaks and Spikes.
That’s what I’ve been talking about? I’m not the one senselessly screaming “b-but stingers!!1!”
That’s just not true…I only started playing Russia after the vikhr was “nerfed”, and I still get tons of kills on air targets like F-16s traveling at speed. Not just when they are going straight at you. Even if it were just when they are flying straight at you - no other helicopter has a multi-purpose ATGM that can force jets to disengage…
You say it’s not relevant, because I bring up more examples of western tech underperforming?
Let’s remind ourselves what you initially said:
My response was - “oh, you mean like how we asked for them to implement the MANPADS properly, and they just ignored us?”, and you somehow come to the conclusion that is irrelevant? That GJN purposefully ignoring sources to make western tech underperform, isn’t relevant at all to the “pledge for better implementation of others?”
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You dont have good enough stats to tell to anyone that they lack skills.
stats don’t matter. What matters is if you understand how to defeat a helicopter without flying into a vikhr or not. Its a specific skill. Winrates don’t define wether you can do something or not.
Winrates, K/D and average team placement are objective informations that can tell a lot about average skill of a person.
With them you can easily filter out bad player opinions.
Only bad players say that those stats dont matter.
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Ofcourse your argument is ‘‘bad stats, invalid opinion’’
Too bad war thunder forum rules say that this is not allowed
Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree
You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:
- Name-calling
- Ad hominem attacks
- Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
- Knee-jerk contradiction
Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.
So, while your winrate based attack is invalid, it is completely valid for me to say that you are using the wrong technique against ka-50’s if you die to their vikhr missiles.
Oh beans. Seems youre incorrect.
Also funny you are mad when people callout you stats when you were the first one to go with skill issue argument.
A specific rule being removed does not mean that x behavior is allowed if another replaced rule prevents it.
Even then, your argument is not anyhow reasoned.
Proper argument would be on why my intended technique would not work and why yours is better (even though you die).
Imagine this situation:
Player 1 has a winrate of 75%. He is playing at 12.0 and does not understand why sparrows are killing him despite him dropping chaff
Player 2 with a lower winrate mentions that he is not notching the missiles and not using the advantange of low altitude
Player 1 now says ‘‘you have lower winrate your opinion is invalid’’ despite the opinion being fully true and correct
This is why winrate does not define how good or bad an opinion is. The opinion does.
Thats a lot of words im not going to read.
You were the first one to go “if you have problems with vikhr thats skill issue” without elaborating and got mad when you got stat checked.
Now you are saying that “skill issue” isnt an argument and demanding people to make proper arguments.
Hypocrite.
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Your ignorance is noted. Feel free to leave the discussion if you have nothing more to discuss about the vikhr missile. If you are interested in discussing my winrate, make a new post for it. Im here to discuss the vikhr missile and techniques used to defeat it
Then dont go “if you have problems with vikhr thats skill issue” without elaborating and get mad when you got stat checked and called out for skill issue.
Now you’re again talking non sense.
Again, if you die to the vikhr missile, this is due to wrong technique. Not because the missile is overpowered in a way that it is unavoidable.
Vikhrs, just by grace of proximity fuze, are already better than any other ATGM found at top tier helicopters when it comes to fighting aerial targets.
On top of that, Vikhrs are SACLOS, so even if the target gets below 25m altitude to disable the proxy fuze, they can score direct hit kill.
SACLOS guidance allows ka pilots to lead the missile when compared to PARS and Spikes, increasing chance of hit.
SACLOS guidance also allows them to bypass IR countermeasures that can defeat IR missiles.
When compared to Hellfires, Spikes and PARS missiles, they dont fly with arc trajectory but flat line of sight trajectory. That makes them more reliable in hitting aerial targets when compared to other top tier heli ATGMs, and are unaffected by height, position of target or direction they move.
On top of that, they have better speed than any NATO helicoter atgm.
All of the aforementioned factors make vikhrs superior choice when engaging enemy helicopters by wide margin, and they are still able to deal with aircrafts in headon, at close range they are able to deal with aircrafts in rear aspect and with little bit of skill they can deal even with aircrafts in side aspect.
They also outrange most of IR missiles by the grace of being ATGMs and they dont need IR lock to fire.
If they were only anti-aircraft missile with HE warhead, they would be one of the best choices aviable to helicopters for air to air combat.
But on top of all those aforementioned positives, they are anti tank missile with tandem heat warhead and enough penetration to get through any NATO side armor, without need to switch between fuze or type of missile or mode.
Frankly, not calling them such and thinking hellfires, pars, hots and spikes are anywhere close to them regarding air to air performance is geniune sign of massive skill issue.
By all of this Im not saying they cant be defeated. I fly Ka-50, Tiger UHT and had more than enough opportunities to try out Apaches with hellfires.
I know how to deal with them.
But it would be lie to say that they are NOT above the rest of ATGMs in terms of air to air combat.
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Completely fine. That is how it is in real life.
They’re not saclos they’re laser beam riding.
PARS and Spikes will lead by using their own guidance logic so you don’t need to lead them, just like the QN502CDD.
This is like saying that aim-54a is op because it has a long range, its fast and it can attack from anywhere. Except any skilled player knows how to counter it in a jet.
First issue already. Having to shoot from side. You don’t have this downside with missiles like the hellfire
Which makes these missiles WAY easier to intercept with anti air and then way easier to kill the helicopter launching them because you are already guiding missiles towards their position.
And thats completely fine because it is within their real specs.
Don’t forget the british apache has starstreaks and can spawn with them which can kill every spaa before they can target it. Much overpowered? Also has possibility to work against side armor of tanks… If it was fixed it could kill jets with ease.
The only issue i see is apache not having historical loadouts with advanced hellfires and some guidance logic issues with pars and spikes. Its not ‘‘vikhr op’’ its ‘‘add hellfire longbow’’ and ‘‘fix F/F missiles’’
Earlier they said that hellfire longbow is op but it can be limited by game mechanics just as any other missile.
Which platform can guide up to 2 or 3 missiles at the same time to the same spot? In my experience is really hard to counter a 50/52 that is aiming at you, because usually the missiles come as salvos.
your logic makes no sense, “because A and B are not working as intended C must be in conclusion not overpowered”.
Apaches can guide 16 hellfires at the same time
Ofcourse its hard, but not impossible. Back in the heli pvp days i used to face ka-50’s all day and manage to kill them anyway. You can absolutely dodge the missiles with a helicopter if you know how to.
The fact is ka-50 is almost fully correctly powered, while Apaches etc are underpowered.
Something being underpowered does not automatically make something else over powered.