Not only that, but they had a high chance of just making the part have a smaller diameter, and push it back into the shell, meaning the parts are smaller diameter, but recede further into the shell body.
As for this:
Think about the damn Leopard 40/70 thingy in Italy TT.
The M247 used to have a HEFI-T/AP-T default belt with 94mm pen at 10m and 77mm pen at 500m range for the longest time. was pretty good against tanks. Later half of 2022 it got nerfed down to have a default SAPHEI belt with only 34mm pen at 10m.
VEAK 40 is downright a better M247 since it still have quite good AP shells, Would been better moved to 9.0-9.3 than having it’s HE-VT removed and lowered to 7.7
You are quoting to me the production values of the round known as “HE, proximity-fuze model 1964 Type V”, said round never came to be until 1975, but was planned as early as 1962 per the request of the french navy modernizing it’s DDs, with the round itself existing without the proximity fuse in French service as early as 1953 out of the 57 mm/60 (2.25") Model 1951 onboard Jean Bart.
It turns out that planned developments are not indicative of when ordinance is actually available to a vehicle, but if we want to go that way I would absolutely love to see M42s being equipped with the M247’s VT ordinance.
Do you happen to mean the Trinity program for the 40/70 series of guns? That occurred right at the start of 1980 last I checked for not only Swedish 40/70s but also German boats, with the latter having the acquisition and upgrade contract only completed in august 1986.
See above statement about the M42 getting PFHE.
A accurate change though as prior the M247 was using the exact same AP rounds that the VEAK did, in US operation such rounds never existed, rather the SAPHEI rounds were the only option.
We are however willing to stretch reality here on such matters so that is another thing I would not have issue with changing if we are staying with these standards of sourcing.
the paper i linked states on page 119 that " 57 mm lvzonrör är f n i produktion och rörets storlek
skiljer sig inte mycket från ett normalt anslagsrör. Figur 8 visar den
relativa storleken av rör av 50-talets generation, av 60-talsmodell
och av en tänkbar 70-talskonstruktion. "
and translated:
“57mm antiair-proximityfuze is currently in production and the fuse size does not differ by much compared to a normal fuse. figure 8 shows the relative sizes of fuses with technology from 50’s, 60’s and a future imagined 70’s construction.”
nothing to do with French navy, this is the Swedish developement talked about.
Its the Swedish Bofors company. i don’t know about a “trinity” program.
There is a document from 1975(or 1977?) (“ammunitionskatalog, data och bilder”) given out by the Swedish defence ministry showing all the in service ammunition, how they work, their dimensions and how they look.
i’m trying to find it again as i’ve lost it but it shows 40mm with proxy fuses.
Edit:
so far i found this:
saying that 40mm proxy became available 1975 and an upgraded mark 2 became available 1983.
Edit 2:
found info on the Trinity system, the round developed for it was a programmable round, not a strictly proxy, and was presented in 1989. (this later got the name Bofors 3-P) https://www.koms.se/content/uploads/2013/07/TiS-nr-3-1989.pdf
Edit 3(work in progress, saving link):
The L/70 and L/60 Does NOT use the same casing the have the same callibre sure but the casing got changed to the more powerful 40 × 364R than the older 40 × 311R.
So NO they arent the same
i don’t understand what you are getting at with this?
They are against AA guns on mobile platforms or something i dont even know anymore?
Or they are saying it should get HE-VT
The original acquasition plan was for deliveries between 1966 and 1968. There’s no indication that HE-VT shells would have been ready by this point. HE-VT ammunition may have been under development at this point, but there is no indication that they were specifically being developed for the VEAK 40. The first Swedish 40 mm HE-VT shells of the 1970s are significantly different compared to the 3P ammunition used by the Lvkv 90s
You are correct that the timeframe where the first VEAK 40 would have been delivered would have been before the wide implementation of 40mm proxy fuses.
BUT since it’s a prototype vehicle and we have found evidence of 40mm proxy fuse tests during the same time that the VEAK 40 project was ongoing and being done by the same company it is extremely likely that they did tests with proxy and VEAK together.
And having a prototype vehicle in WT with prototype ammo would not be in any way weird (in my opinion).
I’m currently searching for better evidence of this as at the moment we only know both existed at the same time in the same company.
I heard the Lvkv 42 base that tested the VEAK 40 radarsystem had tests with proximity fused munitions
I very much doubt that as the fm/42 had the L/60 guns and not the L/70 that the proxy was developed for (IIRC).
Huh? The fm/49 used the L/70 or Lvakan 48 just like the VEAK 40 what are you getting at?
Not from what i have seen.
Do you have a source on the lvkv fm/42 having the L/70 gun?
(At least according to Wikipedia the fm/42 came into service about a decade before the L/70 gun)
The Lvkv 43 however used the L/60 or Lvakan 36
Sure, my main concern is with finding out to what degree this HE-VT was actually functional and whether data could be found. If it’s a purely experimental projectile that was being iterated upon until the 1970s, that may be very difficult. Given that it’s a case of a 2nd hand source, it could also be somebody confusing it with a 57 mm HE-VT round so more data would really be needed.
In terms prototype ammunition there’s also the 40/24 mm slpprj m/49 APDS round that could be added to either the lvkv 42 (lvkv fm/49 and yes it used an L/70) or VEAK 40 that we know for sure existed, although again in the form of prototype ammunition
Another topic to discuss with regards to the VEAK 40 would be its stabilizer which afaik it didn’t have historically, been thinking about making a report on that but I guess that people here wouldn’t be too happy about that :D
Yes? First its in WT, second in documents around the fm/49 its described to use the Lvakan 48. Once im home ill find the documents
Lvakan 48 exists as both L/60 and L/70 as far as I understand it.
Here is the ammo for both, note that both have the m/48 designation but the casings are different lengths:
Edit:
I might have misunderstood this… I’ll double check when I have access to a PC later today…
Yeah, i was wrong about this one. Mixed it with the fm/43.
Lvakan 38 is the slower firing version with the standard 40x311R and the Lvakan 48 is the newer version with increased firerate and rear ejection
The basic 40 mm lvakan m/48 is the 40 mm L/70 in Swedish service, but I believe at least some models could be equipped with L/60 barrels for training and some L/60 platforms acquired late may also have been entirely designated m/48 too, possibly the m/48E. It’s very clear in documentation that the lvkv 42 is equipped with an L/70 barrel however, Bofors even marketed it as 40 mm SP anti-aircraft gun L/70
And the 36 just means the warhead is compatible with the older casing
