@karnitin75
Yep, I double checked and had the fm/43 and fm/49 mixed up, you are both correct.
Yep, thats how life is going around here in sweden focusing on researching about the Lvkv 42 or fm/49
I think you’ve confused lvkv 42 and fm/49. It was originally designated lvkv fm/49 for 1949, but with the designation reform of the 1950s it was changed to lvkv 42 as the 2nd 40 mm SPAA. An SPAA from 1942 wouldn’t have the L/70 but the lvkv 42 is a post-war vehicle tested in the 50s, hence why it might be relevant to give it APDS
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That is what confused me, the lvkv 42 is the fm/49 and the lvkv 41 is the fm/43…
Extremely confusing with the numbers xD
But hey, I’m glad I got corrected, easier to look for more things about HE-VT now :)
I have to add the Lvkv 42 is a POS to find any firsthand information about, even in the national archives!
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Casing Rim Diameter.
It has HE-VT, or was at least planned to be implemented to balance it.
Yea, im wondering why they didnt and just shoved it to 8.0
The first operators of 57mm proximity HE was the French navy, off of their newly minted frigates in the 70s, this is why I bring it up as said rounds for the guns were of Swedish origin.
Appeared, not in service.
Said “programmability” was the option to change between 3 different VT modes to engage differing target types, from sea skimming missiles to high altitude aircraft, to be exact the round’s options were, 33 feet (10 m) for aircraft, 16 feet (5 m) for missiles and 10 feet (3 m) sea skimmer targets.
It was originally to be used in this abomination of a mount.
Puff brings up why this is relevant -
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Its just sad that the only capable SPAA dealing with cas at 8.7 is gone… CAS is already a nightmare. And the gem of the Swedish SPAA line is now gone… sure it will be able to deal with 7.7 aircraft relatively good but yea… welp guess im sticking to 5.7 with a still god awful SPAA, the Lvkv 42 here we gooo…
Seriously the Lvkv 42 has to have more ammunition space in its empty hull right?!
Ive spent three years searching for information here in sweden around the museum that houses it and the national archives
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Probably would have had more in service but it’s mostly correct as-is. The official data sheet says 90 in the turret, but technical drawings indicate 96+the ammo in the gun’s hopper. Early drawings indicate additional ammo storage in the upper rear hull below the turret ammo storage, but this does not appear to have been implemented on the prototype. The one Swedish SPAA that probably should get more ammo is the pvlvv fm/42 as afaik Gaijin has no data on its storage and just made up the number, but only carrying three magazines seems way too low to me
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that can’t be right as the first 40mm Swedish proxy came into service 1975. so that the first 57mm came around the same time sounds unlikely.
i’ve seen several sources calming that the 57mm proxy got added to the 1962-65 AMKAT (released base version 1962 with amendments 1965).
The AMKAT is a register of currently in service ammunition with the Swedish armed forces (and also adds ammunition that is deemed put into service within the year, meaning it is in active large scale production).
page 7 first paragraph
https://web.archive.org/web/20210517043101/https://hemvarnet.se/UserFiles/Nyheter/utbildningsgrupper/livgardesgruppen/filer/AMKAT_DATABILD_2014.pdf
i also have this source from 1967:
that talks about “the 57mm proximity fuses currently in production” on page 119
page 228-231 mentions 40mm proxy “in service during the 70’s”.
page 187 onwards have a chronological order of (loosely translated)“ammunition in service” where 40mm proxy is listed 1975.
i’ve seen several sites quote the 1975-77 AMKAT (75 is base publication, 77 is additions made to the 75) as the year 40mm proxy was added to it.
so the Swedish defense ministry added the 40mm proxy ammunition to their registry for in service in 77. meaning it was put into service at the latest end of 77 early 78.
so i have to amend my year 75 to 77 or 78. but still.
I’m still trying to find both the full version of the 1962-65 AMKAT and the 1975-77 AMKAT but have so far only found loose pages.
yes, and the programmability came way later than the non programmable doper radar proximity fuses.
i don’t see your point here.
i’m trying to say that the development for the trinity was later than the development for the first 40mm proximity fuses.
Having a shell that triggers every time its close to something is very different than a shell containing electronics to the point of being able to choose fuse type on the fly with a press of a button (or a swich selector).
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First 57 mm HE-VT in the Navy is around by 1965 and uses the fuze zonar m/64 lv 57 for the shell sgr m/50Z. It’s in the Navy’s amkat of 1965 but not 1962. So 1964 or 1965 is the most likely date of introduction
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that is what i have found as well. right now looking for AMKAT 65 and AMKAT 77 to be able to prove both 57mm and 40mm though.
I can find the shell 40/48 KULSGR75Z ZAR with fuze ZONAR 75 L V 40 in the navy 1977 amkat. For the army I can only find one in the 1990 amkat in the form of 40/48 KULSGR87 with zonar m/87 lv 40. That would imply that the army didn’t get HE-VT for the 40 mm until the 80s
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that would make sense, protecting ships from planes was more important during that time as ships were the first line of defence.
Do you have access to the AMKAT 77?
Is there a possibility for you to share?
I would more say it has to do with Swedish ground air defence capabilities being dog shit but prioritizing naval forces is a good excuse.
I do have access to AMKAT 77 but there’s nothing in there about any 40 mm proximity fuze. Kulsgr m/87 is the first instance of an HE-VT 40 mm used by the Army
There is usually a section towards the end with the fuses, there should be something similar to this:
but for the 40mm shells. are there no “zonr” or “zon” or “zonar” for the 40mm?
because i’ve seen a few sources talking about the “40 mm kulspränggranat m/75 Z” with “zonanslagsrör m/75 lv 40”
found this as well:
https://www.foi.se/rest-api/report/FOI-R--1373--SE
meaning the KULSGR mark 1 came 1975 and mark 2 in 1983.
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We also have to debate over the fact that, if the VEAK 40 would have been into production, and delivered to Sweden, it would have probably seen its first production run in the mid to late 70’s. Since it technically “still exists,” it could still be fired with the KLSGR 40mm, the L/70 gun still exists so…