Would you like to see this in-game?
Hello everyone, in this suggestion we’ll be having a look at a French IFV designed to meet the needs of the Greek armed forces, the VBCI Philoctetes.
The VCBI Philoctetes is an advanced development of the VBCI vehicle that is already in service with the French army. This specific version was designed to meet the requirements of the Greek army and features a wide array of upgrades over the version used in France. The Philoctetes was first presented on the DEFEA exposition in Athens in 2021 and an incrementally upgraded version was presented again in 2023’s DEFEA.
Philoctetes has also been shown in live trials to Greek officials in France, which seems to have impressed them. Currently, Greece is reported to be interested in acquiring up to 200 of these vehicles with a possible deal including local manufacturing and maintenance, but as of right now (October 2024) nothing has been made concrete.
The VBCI Philoctetes is based on the more powerful VBCI 2 chassis, compared to the original VBCI, this version features improved protection, a more powerful engine (600 hp instead of 550 for the original) and an increased maximum weight, now up to 32 tons.
The vehicle has been fitted with a remote controlled T40 turret, it’s similar to the one found on the EBRC Jaguar of the French armed forces, but that one is a manned version. This very advanced turret comes equipped with a 40mm autocannon that fires cased telescopic ammunitions. These ammunitions come in a very wide array, including obvious choices such as APFSDS and HE, but it can also fire airburst rounds. 63 rounds can be held inside a ready rack in the turret. Another weapon system that is present on the turret is a set of launchers for the Akeron missile. This missile is a French fire and forget munition for anti-tank purposes. This allow the vehicle to engage an extremely wide array of targets ranging from infantry and lightly armored vehicles to main battle tanks.
The turret can also be equipped with an additional remote controlled weapon station featuring either a 7.62mm or 12.7mm machine gun.
General characteristics:
- Crew: 3 (driver, gunner, commander)
- Up to 32 tons (exact weight currently unknown to me)
- engine: 1x Volvo D13 with 600 hp
- maximum speed: 100 km/h forward, 37km/h in reverse
- length: 7.6 m
- width: 2.98 m
- height: 3.7 m
Armament:
- Main armament: 1x CTAI 40mm cannon with following munition types:
- APFSDS
- HE
- Kinetic airburst
- HE airburst
- Secondary armament: 2x Akeron MP launchers, 1 on either side of the turret
- Optional RCWS with 7.62 or 12.7 mm machine gun
Systems:
- Fully stabilized
- Night and thermal sights for gunner and commander
- laser rangefinder & automated FCS, ballistics computer
- remote controlled turret
- tracking of air targets
In-game:
The VBCI Philoctetes is yet another powerful option to fill France’s top tier support vehicle gap. It uses the VBCI-2 chassis that is already in game through the MCT-30 version but adds to it with a more powerful gun and fire & forget missiles. This vehicle is very similar in role to the EBRC Jaguar, with the latter being in service with the French army, perhaps the Philoctetes could be used as a top tier premium or squadron vehicle to further bolster the French ranks.
The vehicle’s multi-purpose role would make it a very engaging vehicle to play, and one to wary of when facing it. The powerful CTA munitions featuring an APFSDS round that has up to 192 mm of penetration can make quick work of any vehicle that is not paying attention. Heavily armored or long range threats can in-turn be dealt with using the incredibly potent Akeron missiles. The vehicle’s capacity to track air targets will also allow it to engage enemy helicopters and even jets that dare come too close to it.
In-turn, the vehicle is still only an advanced IFV, so enemies that spot you first will not have too many issues dealing with you either. Aircraft with long range guided weapons or even just their cannons will probably also be able to penetrate your armor and deal crippling damage.
All-in-all this should be a very potent vehicle that, when played right, can prove to be a menace to the enemy. It should be a great asset to the French tree and one that can seriously help improve the variety available to players of the French top ranks.
Spoiler
Media: Greece interested in VBCI Philoctète – MILMAG
Advanced negotiations underway for VBCI Philoctetes armored vehicles for the Greek Army
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/nexter-further-details-its-philoctetes-8x8-offer-for-greece-following-a-demonstration-in-france
Proposé par le français Nexter, le VBCI "Philoctète" va-t-il s'imposer en Grèce? - Zone Militaire
DEFEA 2023: Nexter exhibits the different versions of its VBCI PHILOCTETES and its product range | Knds
DEFEA 2023: Nexter from France demonstrates VBCI PHILOCTETES IFV to Hellenic Army
Home Meta-defense.fr - Defense news and analysis
14 Likes
This would be a fantastic option for a top-tier French IFV. +1
3 Likes
Very well made suggestion I do question what br this could fall under.
1 Like
there’s a little problem with this one though. It can nuke you out without ever having been exposed to danger. The vbci we already have in game is a pain to deal with when hull down, and this one doesn’t even need to stick out it’s gun to missile you. It also have 2kg of tnt, when the spike lr (and lr2) only have 1.27kg, allowing it to much more reliably overpressure vehicles. And last but not least, it has incredible penetration, where the puma penetrate around 120mm at close range, the cta40 goes through slightly more than 170mm, giving it similar performance to the strf9040c best round.
this is why i was curious on what br it would belong at least 10.7 but even that is really low when comparing it to something like the lynx
For more information on the CTA40 canon and ammunition, check the EBRC Jaguar suggestion : EBRC Jaguar: Reconnaissance Enters the Future
1 Like
i think 11.7 would be ok, it is a massive vehicle full of empty space, and it has a remote controller turret. if you thought the 2s38 was op (it should be 11.0), this is much worse.
3 Likes
Agreed. I need to remind that the APSFDS will penetrate at least 170mm RHA at 0° in game, and maybe even 194mm (if Gaijin uses the longest roads that seem to have been implemented). That plus the AKERON make it a 11.7 IFV imo
Edit : based APFSDS in game would be 166mm at 0°, longer (which existence still has to be sourced) would be 194mm
1 Like
lets hope they don’t butcher the akeron, nlos is for sure not coming the only thing thing i worry is the random hit location shouldn’t matter as much because of the better warhead
1 Like
LOAL probably won’t be a think. At best I think me might be able to lock through the commander optic, but I don’t hope for much. AKERON will probably just be a longer range, better explosive mass than the Spike used on ground vehicles
1 Like
Akerons have the ability to be optically guided using the gunner’s sight which would eliminate the possibility of them hitting randomly. So there should be a choice.
5 Likes
If they could implement this for the hellfire that would be nice as well
2 Likes
You can already lock via the commander sight with Lynx and Vilkas. And scince one of the last updates it is much easier to get a lock with Spike. Sometimes you don’t need more then a little dot of the tank and you can still lock it up. This could be very overpowered, if they add Akeron, because Spike is balancing this with its low hit kill probability.
I play a lot with Lynx and Vilkas and since the last update I almost always shoot all 4 spike missiles from cover via the commander’s sight and of these 4 almost always all 4 hit, unless the enemy moves behind high cover or creates a smoke screen. Of these 4 missiles, however, only one is deadly in about every second round, because you can obly use them to take out light tanks or mbts without ERA or hardkill system and even then you have to be lucky.
But if Akeron achieves more reliable kills thanks to its higher explosive mass, then you’ll either have to rate the vehicle at 11.7, where you can only really have an effect on very few opponents with the machine gun, so you’ll have to rely on the guided missiles, of which you only have two, and I can say from experience with the Lynx, which until recently only had two missiles, that it’s really no fun. Or the locking for Akeron will be reset to the version of the release of the first spike missiles, which in my experience is really no fun on top tier either.
That’s why I think if Akeron is added, unless you add the optically guided mode, it will be a worse guided missile in game than spike.
1 Like
This is definitely a powerful add. Should be placed just above the future EBRC Jaguar in the tree +1
1 Like
I believe that you should clarify your suggestion as there are different versions of the Philoctete:
Firstly, there is the version which was offered to the Greeks:
Spoiler
Note how the gunner sight is placed to the left of the cannon. This is an earlier T40 turret which has a 60 round ready rack and also uses the Kongsberg RCWS which has a 3rd generation TI.
Then there is the same turret but with a 4th generation commander sight which was presented at Eurosatory 2022:
Spoiler
And then there is the Philoctete with the later version of the T40 turret which instead has a 63 round ready rack:
Spoiler
Note how the gunner sight has moved to the right of the cannon.
Then for completionism’s sake, there is the later T40 turret with the Kongsberg RCWS that was offered to Qatar:
Spoiler
For the most part they are all functionally the same, but better thermals has previously been enough justification to implement a ‘new’ vehicle as well as the slightly different ready racks.
Also notable mentions:
VBCI-2 T40 (which uses the inferior SAVAN 11 gunner sight) with 8 smoke grenades and Kongsberg RCWS:
Spoiler
Also there is the VBCI-2 T40 (again using the inferior SAVAN 11 gunner sight) but with 4 smoke grenades and Kongsberg RCWS:
Spoiler
And finally the VBCI MkII (with improved armour - STANAG 6 all-around)
Spoiler
The reason that the SAVAN 11 sight is inferior is because it is unable to optically guide Akeron MPs and only uses a 3rd generation TI.
6 Likes
Some exciting news! In the last few days, more recent ballistic trials for the CTAS 40 APFSDS has been found which states that it has a length to diameter ratio which is greater than 24 and possibly an initial velocity greater than 1550m/s. Even the exact density of the tungsten has been found. There is a little more that has to be determined at this moment, but in-game the APFSDS could have in excess of 180mm penetration @ 0m, possibly up to 192mm.
When France receives the CTAS 40, there is more than sufficient evidence for a bug report.
9 Likes
No, that figure comes from earlier trials which used a shorter cartridge and therefore penetrator. The length of the newer penetrator is longer than the 40mm Bofors and most likely a much higher velocity. The APFSDS is supposed to frontally penetrate a T-55 at range IRL…
1 Like
oh? whats its length compared to the Japanese 40mm CTA that has a case length of 40x350mm about? it apparently gets 180mm flat
1 Like
I wouldn’t know about the Japanese APFSDS. But currently, CTAS has a cartridge length of 255mm.
1 Like
