Ingame, S.2 and AZUR have, incorrectly, the same armor as S.1.
In reality, S.2 has (slightly) improved armor compared to S.1.
Sadly I can’t find it right now, but there was a nice picture showing S.2’s improvements over S.1. Basically, an additional plate over the front turret arc. May not seem like much, but those extra 30ish mm are enough to make it all more reliable against shells of the likes of 3BM60.
How is DM73, a round that even if Gaijin were to fix the density to 18.5g/cc, would result in performance only comparable to M829A3, an equivalent to M829A4 which according to latest estimates is in the ~760mm/0° range?
There’s enough known about the initial requirements for the DM83 to make educated estimates, which would put it slightly above M829A4 raw performance wise (like a 0.5mm difference).
DM73 in a best case scenario is a ~695mm class APFSDS.
Well I think we all see the problem there.That pretty much proves my point about a certain type of player who wont adapt and who wont put the effort in.What do you want Gaijin to do about players who can’t bothered ? What are we all to do about those who switch their brain off and commit zero effort?
Is that not what many are saying on here? Certain people from certain countries expect to be carried all the time and wrapped in cotton wool. Others just get the hell on with it.
That’s my point, exactly.
(X) tank can win matches by itself by being played like a headless chicken.
(Y) tank needs a professional-like playstyle in order to achieve similar performance.
That is not balance.
Just because the handful of Ariete players are eSports level and can do amazingly well with it does not mean that it’s a good tank, and the Abrams having worse stats because its players are not willing to play like that doesn’t mean it’s a “player and not tank issue”.
The point is that every nation should have the same OBJECTIVE technical capabilities, or close enough.
People shouldn’t demand others to sweat their asses off in objectively worse MBTs to stand a chance because “otherwise it’s a skill issue”.
Everyone should play on an even ground. If (X) players don’t need to sweat to win because their tank wins by itself, there’s no reason why (Y) players should sweat to win because their tank is objectively inferior.
And your point is very invalid because you are expecting all tanks to perform the same, remember what you said about not sacrificing accuracy for balance? Even with your current quick “balance” excel for top tier MBTs, you are still going to face the same issues if people are not going to adapt to the vehicle itself, instead of having the vehicle adapt to the player’s use.
Let’s assume that Gaijin uses your BR sheet, how long until we see Ariete and Merkavas go up in BR to 14.0 because the players are actually good using them? We have seen Gaijin move shit vehicles up in BR because the minor nation players overcome the difficulties by adapting to them, while major nation vehicles with superior vehicles have their BR go down because it was used by shit players, example, Japanese and American props.
So lets drop Japan in WW2 completely then ,lets give the UK in WW2 APHE and roof mounted MGs and lets give Russia massive gun depression.
Vehicles should be balanced based on objective technical capabilities, not player statistics.
I do not care if Ariete players get 4.0 K/Ds because they are eSports-level players, that means nothing when it comes to the tanks… etc.
You say this now, but Japanese props BR and American props BR would like to have a strong word with you, likewise F-15As, Abrams 120mm with 5s reload, German Panzer IVs etc…
I can make a bunch more examples here.
Similar objective capabilities does not equal to 1:1 identical ones.
Asymmetrical balance is a thing; when there are certain strengths and weaknesses that even out.
For example; T-90M and M1A2 SEP are balanced because they both have pros and cons against each other and, in an asymmetrical way, their capabilities are similar even though they are fundamentally different.
T-90M has spall liners and a significantly better armor profile…
…but it has worse reverse speed, mobility in general and gun depression.
M1A2 SEP has better mobility, reload and gun depression…
…but it has non-existent armor protection.
Etc.
And then there’s the 2A7s/122s, which are simply better than either of the above in every way (except the 122s have a disadvantage when it comes to gunner thermal sight quality).
I think it took me an hour to see that this game is not for those who want “fair” for so many reasons.I had a choice to either stay or go and I chose to stay and accept the game.My only issues are about changes Gaijin make to ruin game play I am used to that I see as poor.
No way do I see this game as fair.I play on console so if I had your attitude I would have quit long ago and so would every console player because nearly every game is a sweaty mess of high concentration for us.
No disrespect but America and Americans seem to want to live in a mindless place watching mindless movies playing mindless games where they can switch off a brain they haven’t used much all day any way.Some people want more.
This game is getting dumbed down badly but at least we can see who for now .Thanks for that at least. Maybe Gaijin will sell out to Disney and they will make a nice easy game for you all ; )
What? xD
Wanting all of a competitive game’s available factions to be balanced to a lesser or greater against each other has nothing to do with, uh… whatever you are saying here xD. It’s nothing but a more than reasonable expectation from such kind of game.
Otherwise, you will end up having everyone playing the same 3-4 factions because all others are objectively pointless by comparison.
Also not sure why you are now saying something about “America and Americans”, I am Spanish and play each and every single nation at Top Tier on this game (except Italy and China).
I could also not help but to notice you haven’t got past 7.7 yet. Maus, that’s your highest BR vehicle so far… so I am not really sure why you are speaking so confidently about Top Tier, don’t want to sound rude, I’m just confused, hahah.
@SPANISH_AVENGER …anyway, I’m going to come back around and just say this again. If the players cannot adapt to changes, no matter how much buffs a tank receive, it would not be used/utilised to its fullest. Bad tanks don’t equate bad experience, but bad teams do. A vehicle is only as good as the user would be.
So, according to all of you, F-14A vs SU-57 would be perfectly balanced because “the F-14A players just need to adapt and git gud”, or something?
And if the F-14A players asked for a more equivalent counterpart to SU-57, you would go in and accuse them of “having the game dumbed down and have Gaijin handhold them because they refuse to adapt”, or something?
(Extreme example, it’s hyperbole, not comparing F-14AvSU-57 to M1A2vL2A7V, but just to illustrate my point).
This is a horrible hyperbole, a horrible exaggeration in fact. The current MBTs that we have are not unkillable with each other and are also competitive enough to handle each other fairly. Saying the F-14 fighting against an Su-57 is more like trying to compare an M60 to a T-14, with an extremely huge difference in capabilities.
Ariete, Challenger 2 and Merkava Mk.4 right now are comparable despite lacking in some aspects, because they still have the firepower to equate the differences down to the operators/users. An F-14 vs an Su-57 has firepower differences so big it becomes an unfair comparison. You’re better off comparing F-14 to an F-15.
Yet you put the T-80B at the same BR.
Why are you on an English speaking forum if you dont understand English?
We have that already because they are not balanced. Some nations have never been balanced and most have fewer options that the USA have.So what more do you want from the USA line up?
OK but it is still an American attitude I see all the time about everything and its a common theme for all of us to want out nation to be the best.
I play top tier on a friends PC quite a bit and I will be honest it seems hard for all nations.Well I find it much harder for sure( I certainly dont improve his stats ) At least the USA has a strong line up.Some nations dont. I know enough to see that clearly
The idea that all nations are different seems to be above you,not something you have picked up despite playing for so long.You dont sound rude at all ,just not getting what I am saying.
Good thing I specified I had made it in the blink of an eye and that it was WIP and subject to changes and polishments… jeez
BuH aBrAm PlEyArS bAd… yeah no I’m sick tired of brainwashing, US needs a FIX/BUFF
If stats remain consistent for a long period of time for vehicle underperformance is 100% not the players.
What? Do I strike you as someone who does not understand English? My grammar and orthography are currently better than that of many native speakers and I don’t even try, for God’s sake. (Although I have always strived and will always strive to improve my English as much as I can).
I want the USA lineup, as well as each and every single lineup, to be balanced against each other, at least to a degree. I am not asking for everyone to be exact carbon copies with a 1:1 balance.
I am an all-nation player. All I would like is to be able to play any of the nations I have and experience similar levels of fun and comparable performance with all of them, instead of automatically ditching half the nations I have and playing the same 3-4 nations every time because they are simply, objectively above all others.
Glad to know I don’t sound rude!
My point is- of course all nations are different. But none should be beneath or above any others to the large degree many currently do.