there’s only 7 top tier plane models. pretty hard to judge what qualifies as below average vs average
F-15C GE, F-18E, DEU EFT, UK EFT, IT EFT, Su-30SM, Su-30SM2, J-10C, Su-30MKM, DEU EFT AESA, UK EFT AESA, IT EFT AESA, Rafale C, Rafale M
i could throw in Gripen E since it probably should be 14.3 but i can leave it out if you want
these are the same…
this is almost the same as sm.
same
same… just fatter.
you group the aircraft families together? so it would be F-15C, F18E, J-10C, Su-30’s, EFT’s, AESA EFT’s, and Rafales?
Yep.
AESA radar. Check.
AMRAAM isnt doing great at the moment but that is offset by carrying loads and being able to fire reasonable high and fast. Check
Not the best FM, but large CM count. Check.
It would broadly meet the criteria for most top tier jets at the moment.
At the moment, using both my expereince fighting them, what others on teh forums have said and statshark (which I do take with a pinch of salt until Jan data). Id order them best to worst
Rafale (both of them)
Su-30SM2
AESA typhoons
F-15C GE
Gripen E / J-10C
M-Scan Typhoons / Su-30/Su-30MKM (Tricky how to debate these actually)
F-18E
so imo, its smack bang average
Yeah thats what I meant. I should have said this instead
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well in that case, the F-15C is only better than 1 plane/family of planes in the categories you mentioned. that definitely makes it below average in those areas
And all you gotta do is take that top 3 and put them at 14.7
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individually in those categories sure. But we didn’t talk about CM which its above average. Overall morvran’s ranking makes sense.
But the point still remains though. Why is the line drawn there?
Why is it not drawn with the Gripen E and J-10C. and move the top 4 up to 14.7?
it barely qualifies as a 14.3 and you know it.
average radar
fair enough, average ig
2nd worst FM at the BR but large CM count with far worse defensive avionics which more than offset it
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bacause the gap between and Grippen-E and F-15GE is a lot smaller than the Gap between The F-15GE and the Rafale
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if it barely qualifies, that half of what is at 14.3 does either.
J-10C is pretty evenly matched with the F-15C since it does get respectable missile counts and the PL-12/PL-8B is better than 9M/120A or C
my bad again, i should have said it barely scrapes along against the AESA EFT, Su-30SM2, and Rafale
The gap between MICA and anything else is the issue there though.
if the F-15C GE had MICA it would be performing just as well
If the GE didn’t get amber racks i would agree.
its not just missile performance the rafale and Typhoons are significantly faster
Im gunna wait for the Jan 2026 data before I commit to agreeing or disagreeing with that. Dec data shows it performing on-par to the 2/3 AESA Typhoons at the moment. Though that can be largely explained by MICA EM/R-77-1 advantage over AMRAAM and if AMRAAM was ever fixed, we’ll ahve to see how the dynamic changes
it doesnt have a UFO FM like the Rafale though, or sphere rwr, or MAWS