US ground vehicle tree on top of the tree, needs a buff

[quartas121]

@Morvran

It can fire AMRAAM high and fast

not as high and fast as a Su-30SM2 can launch R-77-1 or EFT with its AIM-120’s

@Morvran

It has AESA.

thats the bare minimum for 14.3

@Morvran

It has large missile count

doesnt really matter when the missiles are mediocre and the plane itself is also mediocre ingame

@Morvran

It has a large CM suite
It has a perfectly good RWR

RWR doesnt work when turning so you have to level off to check and adjust which takes time and only makes the enemy get closer where they have even more of an advantage

@Morvran

So it cant dogfight? So what? Its a BVR truck, dont try to dogfight in it.

you still need to turn well to notch and do basic maneuvers.

@Morvran

Other than its gunfighting ability, give me one thing the F-15C GE does badly?

radar gimbal compared to many 14.3. probably has the worst RWR for 14.3 or one of them. bad ability to turn into a notch.

@Morvran

So, whats the issue? This is no different to me in my Typhoon. In fact, im usually more like 20-25km

you can afford to get closer since you can turn in way quicker to notch.

@Morvran

Why do you need to do that, focus one target at time, otherwise you are probably wasting missiles.

if theres 3 guys that are well within LSZ, why would i only attack 1 when there is a risk of the kill getting taken and the other guys shooting tons of missiles at me

[KENO]

@Morvran

The question isnt though “is the AESA Typhoon better” it probably is marginally better. The question is “is the difference between them great enough to justify a BR difference” and “is the F-15C GE notably stronger than the remaining 14.3s to require it to move up too”

Marginal?? better FP in every stat, same missiles better radar, better RWR and has MAW no shit it should be a higher BR what are you smoking

[CollectorOfSins]

what…

[quartas121]

@Morvran

Well, going purely by stats, the F-15C GE actually performed better than the German AESA Typhoon.

So…

Is it actually bad or just flown badly?

i think its the other way around. more skilled players are going for the F-15C GE than German EFT since the other skilled players went for UK or Italy for their previously better typhoons

[KENO]

bro would rather die that simply say the GE players are more skilled than the germans

[quartas121]

@Morvran

F-15C GE vs M-Scan Typhoon or J-10C or F-18E

honestly thats a pretty fair match up barring the super hornet which really is just awful at 14.3

[Morvran]

@quartas121

not as high and fast as a Su-30SM2 can launch R-77-1 or EFT with its AIM-120’s

What speed can you get up to in the F-15C GE?

@quartas121

thats the bare minimum for 14.3

So? M-Scan Typhoons to 14.0?

@quartas121

doesnt really matter when the missiles are mediocre

It has the same missiles as most top tier nations at the moment. Its far far worse if it had weaker missiles (FGR2 vs F-4S for example)

@quartas121

the plane itself is also mediocre ingame

Is it though? That is the question here.

@quartas121

you still need to turn well to notch and do basic maneuvers.

and, it seems perfectly capable of that, even yourself said that its possible to turn and defend with plenty of time.

@quartas121

radar gimbal compared to many 14.3.

that is just unfortunate that the US didnt build a gimball AESA. But does it really differ from the J-10C or Rafale that greatly?

@quartas121

probably has the worst RWR for 14.3

Would need to check them all, but that sounds like hyperbole to me. Its looks perfectly average. No different to the Tornado iirc, and Ive never had much of an issue notching threats

@quartas121

bad ability to turn into a notch.

Again, I dont see this as being an “end of the world” kinda situations. Ive notched plenty of times in something like the Tornado F3 at 20k ft and that aircraft hates turning at anything other than sea level.

I seriously doubt the F-15 turns worse than a Tornado.

@quartas121

you can afford to get closer since you can turn in way quicker to notch.

So fire at 25km then.

@quartas121

if theres 3 guys that are well within LSZ, why would i only attack 1 when there is a risk of the kill getting taken and the other guys shooting tons of missiles at me

If you can fire upon 1, then you can fire upon 3. Im not sure why that is different?

[Morvran]

The tricky thing about the MM, is that Britain rarely faces the Rafale, Germany and Italy do. Its massively skews the data. Its the only logical explanation as to why the Britsih Typhoon for the past year was so consistantly performing so much better than the other 2 as I seriously doubt the LWS was doing much in ARB.

But the F-15C GE has performed better than the German AESA, about on-par with the Italian AESA and better or onpar with the respective M-Scan Typhoons

If it was performing so poorly, it should be like 0.9 K/D not 1.05.

[Lawrence777]

This is true

[Morvran]

So, US is notably stronger = Fairer match up. Got it. 0 Surprise there

[CollectorOfSins]

I believe the su30sm2 has a really bad rwr not being able to see anything above or underneath.

[KENO]

@Morvran

What speed can you get up to in the F-15C GE?

quartas121:

the SM2 and F-15GE would be even in speed if the SM2 didnt air spawn 300kph faster than the F-15

[Morvran]

Wouldnt be surprised there either.

So Id call the F-15 RWR average

[Morvran]

Right, and that is a BS “balancing mechanic” we can all agree on.

[Lawrence777]

@CollectorOfSins

I believe the su30sm2 has a really bad rwr not being able to see anything above or underneath.

All Russian Su27-30 frames with L-150 radars have a bad vertical degree of coverage, and no maws(su30MKM is the only one that does, but it is in japan, so minorities have a jet)

[CollectorOfSins]

With the recent flanker fm buff, the su30sm2 is a lot better than the f15ge in BVR. I’ve noticed American players side climbing more and jumping in mid game since they can’t compete with the typhoons and sm2. Maybe with the f15ex coming soon American can compete in BVR again.

[Morvran]

I doubt it would make much of a difference.

Id say the change actually needed is fixing some of the outstanding bug reports for AMRAAM, but that would buff both the Typhoon and F-15. But would bring the AMRAAM better onpar with R-77-1 and MICA EM

[CollectorOfSins]

True the thrust to weight ratio for the typhoon is still .2 more than the f15ex unfortunately.

[quartas121]

@Morvran

What speed can you get up to in the F-15C GE?

i did like mach 1.5 right before turning away one time

@Morvran

So? M-Scan Typhoons to 14.0?

my bad, but this just goes to show they need to decompress to at least 14.7 because although we do not agree on many things, the EFT and AESA EFT being the same BR makes no sense

@Morvran

It has the same missiles as most top tier nations at the moment.

those nations get MAWS, sphere RWR, way better FM, IRST, etc. so they are still better ingame

@Morvran

Is it though? That is the question here.

looking at the jets without missiles, the F-15C GE does nothing really well at 14.3. before you say some garbage about US mains wanting to be OP like you always do, please consider that a plane like the F-15C is going to have tradeoffs at 14.3 and tradeoffs go for good and bad things

@Morvran

Ive notched plenty of times in something like the Tornado F3 at 20k ft

more forgiving time, not comparable

@Morvran

So fire at 25km then.

so notch initial volley then turn back in and shoot at head on 25km?

@Morvran

If you can fire upon 1, then you can fire upon 3. Im not sure why that is different?

you literally said to focus on one person at a time

[Lawrence777]

Btw, this is leading to nowhere. Both have agree’d on decompression and several bug reports (120As/Bs) getting addressed as neither nation is exactly doing super great imo. Thats russia and france more over.(can argue japan too because they have a similar russian 30sm which is actually better cuz its lighter and has maws)