I casted my vote for “yes” thinking… IDK what I was thinking tbh, I remember thinking it was something else, missunderstood the question, because english is not my first language, and I kind of rushed my vote, and I think many more people were also misinformed, so we should remove those votes too? 51.4% of people votes either “no, i dont want to test it” or “no, i dont want it to be implemented” whether they were misinformed it doesn’t matter because either way they didn’t want it to be in the game, and I think there is like those 0.4% of people who voted “no” because they wanted the test to be skipped and be implemented right away
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Why do you lie about things people can just look up? Because you hope that no one will do so and you can keep moving the goalposts to avoid having to admit you were wrong? This is truly mind boggling.
Your comment claiming the Tiger E’s cupola can’t be penned is from a discussion about the viability of medium tanks against Tiger Is, and specifically about the US 76 mm, the exact gun found on the M4A3 (76)W.
Not that it matters much, even if that original comment had been made about the Jumbo your behavior in this discussion would’ve still been incredibly dishonest. All the claims you made later, like never having died through or killed anyone through the Tiger E’s cupola were made specifically with guns like the 76 mm or 85 mm in mind, as the discussion was about that. Your own cherrypicked protection analysis screenshots you used to try to show that the cupola can’t be penned were using the 76 mm too.
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What kind of nonsense is this? 51>48 or does Gaijin democracy work in the opposite direction?
You know you were participating in survey, right? Basically every vote we take for this game is just survey for Gaijin to gather information about topic and nothing else. And based on this information they can decide what they do next. And if they decided to do a test because it was close enough it is their choice to do so. After all it is still just a test and it has no impact on game until it is really implemented.
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Realistically nothing will change, because with both Sherman 76 and T-34-85, you shouldn’t be aiming for Tiger’s or Panther’s cupola in the first place. You should aim for Tiger’s center of mass and Panther’s turret from the front and center of mass from the side, because you have enough pen.
Cupola shots not being able to kill a Tiger I or a Panther doesn’t matter, since they are not hard to destroy at 5.3-6.0 to begin with.
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There are so many photos around of odd and weird tank kills from WW2 that it seems laughable to have all these teenage armchair experts lecturing on what reality in tank warfare is.People judging APHE like they fought in WW2.
There are a few photos dotted about of Cupola hits and cupolas taken off.
The Tiger for such a big tank is incredibly cramped inside and a shell detonating inside the cupola must at least be equivalent to detonating a grenade in a similar space.
It may depend if the Commander was looking through the cupola perhaps.
I would say this though. The physics of WT seems some what random and much of it seems to depend on the crew skills and when you have good crew skills that dice throw is more in your favour, so I think a mathematical chance scenario is played as much as shooting skill.Same with long shots ,you fire the shot and the calculator takes over and either gives you a hit or not.
I have had some long range kills that even surprised me and had the other guy screaming cheat.
One sure sign of a novice historian is them saying " This never happened or that never happens " It’s almost impossible to guess what might happen under such circumstances or how often.
“No crew would do this or ever do that” Unless you have been there you really can only guess.
All I can do is accept the game as it and try to be as good as I can at playing it which is mostly down to me.
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Except a grenade isn’t going hundreds of meters per second when it detonates.
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True and a shell can be heavy.
If anything is understated in this game its solid shot and I make that statement based on watching modern day firing of shot in the USA where civvy tanks can do it.
The 76 can’t pen the angled hull of a Tiger I and the turret face is an incredibly unreliable volumetric mess. Targets can also be hull down. Then there’s no shortage of other targets, like the Panther (F), Jumbo, T26E5, IS-1/2 and so on. These weakspots are used fairly often by decent players, and removing them takes away the only available counterplay in some situations. Being able to shoot the flat UFP of a Tiger 1 that’s driven by someone bad or unaware does not mean these weakspots are useless.
See the clip and description in this post:
Or this clip of facing a T26E5 in a T-34 85:
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One thing I’m curious about is…
A lot of clutter and equipment and gizmos inside the tank are not modelled. A lot of them are also “soft” - i.e.: would break easily without slowing down the round.
If this clutter and equipment was modelled, how would it affect AP/APDS effectiveness? I’ve tried to find articles discussing whether something like a shot to, say, the radio box caused thicker or thinner spalling inside a tank but failed to find anything.
Even with the modelled equipment, it always struck me a bit odd that I can somehow shoot an APDS shell right next to a gunner/loader/commander standing beside a breech from the side, turn that breech black (destroy it) and it does not injure, or only barely the people standing next to it.
Like in this case (Challenger shooting challenger side on with APDS. Very forced example, yes, but still.):
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Very true.I do think AP is the round that needs attention.
Isn’t the velocity of the shell close to zero when it’s exploding in the cupola? I mean it explodes there because it can’t pen the back side of the cupola so it explodes when it stops.
Oh gee. If only that couldn’t be solved by:
A.) better positioning
B.) shooting straight through the turret face and killing both the gunner and commander
- Except it can, side armor behind the tracks is 60mms, you can shoot just above the tracks to hit it cleanly.
- You can move like 10 meters to the left or to the right and you can already pen + most players don’t angle enough and you can just pen the front plate.
You also immediately jumped to the worst possible scenario, but even then the Tiger still can’t push you, unlike Jumbo that can just go straight at you.
You can like catch people by surprise, move around and stuff, you know. Or even unorganized teamplay. You see a friendly, don’t stand next to him, to create a crossfire all by yourself.
It’s not about him in a Tiger being bad, but you in your T-34-85, a Sherman 76 or whatever, not being bad. Have some faith in yourself.
It’s really not that hard to kill a Tiger without shooting the cupola… I’m starting to think that you’re just bad.
I pretty much never shoot Tiger’s cupola, because I never have to, unless it’s the H1 and I’m in something like a Jumbo 75.
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If the Tiger is angled correctly M62 can not pen the hull. No, not even the 60 mm armor behind the tracks.
Or I can just shoot his cupola. “Just flank bro” is terrible advice and often not possible. It isn’t possible in the linked clip of the kill on the Panther F, or in the one I posted of engaging the T26E5 for example. Shooting the cupola was the only/best option in those two instances.
He can just shoot you in the face. Unlike the Tiger the tanks we are talking about do not have reliable armor, and don’t get an overpressure round either.
We are talking about enemies that are aware of you and not playing stupid. Every bot can shoot unaware enemies in the side, having to rely on mistakes of your opponent is terrible balancing.
In what way is relying on the stupidity of your opponents more skilled than reliably hitting their weakspot despite them putting up a fight and playing their vehicle correctly?
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imagine a world where we didn’t keep getting flanking spots removed from maps…
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Gaijin continuing to turn maps into one lane moba bullshit doesnt help, but even with plenty of flanking routes tanks without frontal weakspots just stomp. I dont get why people like that guy always assume that the enemy does not have a brain and will just happily get shot in the side. Every time we had heavies that could just hold W they were abhorrent for balancing. The Jumbo at 4.7 was, the IS-6 when it was introduced was, the KV-1E/B at 4.0 are.
I would argue in that case that this is a team game. We already have established mechanics for one player enabling another to get the kill (scouting in light tanks). I frequently see big gun casemate tank destroyers when I play, just as one counter. The M36 also has more than enough pen to shoot through the mantlet without any resistance (given the Firefly can eat Tiger Es for breakfast, the M36 has more penetration AND an explosive filler to take out the whole turret rather than just the gunner & breech and it has a decent reverse gear).
And even then, the Sherman 76 with M62 can shoot the corner of the hull where the side and front plates connect as long as you’re under 300 meters. If you cannot shoot that corner, chances are you’re not hitting the cupola either since it’s hiding behind the wall.
And worst case, apparently the 5.0 BR sherman can penetrate the tiger’s mantlet as well when perpendicular, and if the tiger is looking away in hopes of angling the turret, then you can shoot the breech and disable its gun. Sure, it’s a small target but…
So is the T-34’s neck ring and the small flat surface near its gun.
Although I will concede the protection analysis may lie as it claims the comet can penetrate a T-34-85’s driver’s hatch and turret while my in-game experience says that shooting those things anywhere but the neck ring and right beside the gun leads shell shattered or ricochet.
Off-topic:
… Also what volumetric hell is this lmao
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It is a team game, but that works both ways. Expecting people to flank and double team enemies when their opponent can just hold W and roll up is bad balancing, and in the instances we’ve seen vehicles like that in game they were overpowered seal clubbers. I gave some examples of that in the post you replied to.
The turret face and hull corner of the Tiger 1 are both very unreliable and harder to hit than its cupola. And hitting both requires you to expose way more of your tank when peaking over a hill.
Not at point blank.
At 200 meters it has to be perfect down to single degrees. It’s laughable that you would consider this invincible, when the margin of error is so incredibly small, that it’s practically RNG.
The “flanking” in question:
T-34-85 is a 5.7 medium tank, T26E5 is a 6.7 heavy tank…
So even a heavy tank that is 1 full BR higher can’t be allowed to have some armor. Good to know.
I could say that a Tiger should be invincible from all angles, because relying on enemy not knowing weakspots and not flanking is terrible balancing…
Stop with the “relying on enemy’s mistakes is a terrible game design”, it’s just stupid. Every victory is based on enemy’s mistake. In modern chess computers play pretty much perfectly, so all grandmaster’s games are about who makes less mistakes according to Stockfish.
It’s not impossible to kill a good Tiger player, unless you yourself are bad or average, but even then it’s possible due to luck and such. It works like that with every tank in the game, if it’s at the same BR as you.
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