How about make every other shell stronger instead of nerfing APHE?
…so the game becomes even more of a “whoever hits first wins” one?
Irregardless of armor, vehicle type, positioning, targetting, aim, balance, realism… just make it so whoever hits first, kills the enemy?
A single shell type is broken… so instead of fixing it, we break ALL others so they are as broken as the broken shell?
Since when is the solution to a broken thing to break everything around it so that it’s equally as broken, instead of just fixing what’s broken?
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The Real World: Your crew isn’t sticking around after two or three crew get turned into meat chucks when a round goes through any part of your tank. Hell, they probably don’t stick around after one does. But Gaijin probably can’t animate every single instance that would result in a bail. But what they can do is force a death, make the tank look destroyed so the battle field isn’t littered with intact looking vehicles, confusing the hell out of everyone.
Is this likely the situation? Probably not. But does offer a realistic way or justification where APHE can one shot a tank? Yes.
Should other rounds get this? I don’t see why not. A lot of players have said the same thing, “Don’t nerf the one good round, just buff the other poor performing ones.”
I have no problem with how APHE performs in its current state. I don’t even want the buff that this round got. It didn’t need it. And in the 2600 hours I’ve played, I’ve never once seen someone ever complain it was too powerful.
And so did 52% of the pollsters, regardless of what information they had. You and anyone else can assume all the disingenuous reasoning you want (I.e. Russian CCs spreading misinformation). But 52% said no. I voted no, not just because I don’t want a test, but I don’t want time wasted on the rework at all. And I’m willing to bet that 52% majority thought similarly as well.
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…so the game becomes even more of a “whoever hits first wins” one?
*Whoever pens first wins. Yeah, exactly. That’s fair.
A single shell type is broken… so instead of fixing it, we break ALL others so they are as broken as the broken shell?
APHE is not broken, other shells are broken and underperforming.
Btw here’s proof that cupola hits with APHE actually disable tanks irl
Exactly. If the penning shot does enough damage to crew and modules that can realistically force a “knocked out tank” or at least result in a bail; then yes. And I agree. APHE is far from broken. The other shells are just hot garbage.
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Keyword; “realistically”.
A single shell type turning into a thermonuclear bomb and disintegrating anything on a 360º radius is not realistic.
What’s the issue with just making it work as it should?
Any penning shot would cause such damage if every shell turned into a nuclear bomb once inside a vehicle. Is that what we want now?
“Play War Thunder! Where every hit leads to death! Don’t bother to aim for modules or crew members; as long as you pen, you kill!”
We may as well replace the detailed internal modelling by HP bars at this point, then. Why bother to aim at crew members, ammo racks or critical components and modules if literally any shell penetrating the armor is going to lead to the destruction of the vehicle regardless of where you hit?
What separates WT from WoT when that happens? When you don’t need to aim anymore, but just penetrate?
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A single shell type turning into a thermonuclear bomb and disintegrating anything on a 360º radius is not realistic.
That’s how APHE works. It pens then it detonates. Go ahead and check for yourself what happens when grenade detonate inside of a tank, war in Ukraine has provided more than enough video footage.
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It pens, it detonates, and then shrapnel from the casing is generated in different arcs while moving forward due to the momentum of the shell; it does not suddenly become a 360º sphere of instant death and anihilation.
The whole debate is about the new realistic simulation vs the old oversimplified modelling… and you now say that the old oversimplified modelling is more realistic than the realistic simulation specifically made to more accurately depict the effects of the shell?
In fact, even the proposed fixed APHE model would still be much better than it was in real life, except it would be more balanced and just slightly more realistic. But if you wanted it to be realistic as you claim, it would be just barely slightly better than solid shots.
Are you comparing a stationary frag grenade detonating to a shell travelling at 800 m/s hitting an armor plate?
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I mean, haven’t we already? What do you think the different, escalating colors mean? Just because there’s not a number value associated with the yellow, orange, red, and black indicators doesn’t mean it’s “not” a health bar.
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At least now (except for APHE) you are suppossed to bother aiming at relevant stuff inside a tank to deal the corresponding damage to that which you aimed for.
Some people however appear to just want to make it so that penetration=kill, regardless of whether you actually hit anything relevant or not.
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Shell realism comes under modelling realism, crew is inflatable dummies. WT dose not do crew morale and no one in the right mind wants that.
Shells on the other hand belong to physics and that’s something WT does try to model correctly. What WT does is make you play “RC” vehicles that act as mechanically(well sorta that don’t do the issues and I’m fine with that) and scientifically accurate as possible.
I’ve been playing US 5.7 lately and compared to the UK where I needed to aim, I just shot in the general direction of the enemy and they were knocked out. To the point, I wasn’t relying on any skill playing the US compared to the UK.
But hey if you want other shell buff to APHE levels here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder
Here is the bug report website. You need 1 primary and 2 secondary sources to prove that is how it works in real life. Thems the rules.
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Exactly. Physics and damage modelling realism =/= human behaviour and enviornmental realism.
War Thunder is a war machinnery semi-simulator, not a human psychology and social behaviour simulator.
We want planes to be modelled accurately and behave realistically.
We don’t want pilots to eject from their plane because you flew too close to the ground and they panicked.
We want tanks to be modelled accurately and behave realistically.
We don’t want a tank crews to have a panic attack and bail out because their tank was hit by 20mm rounds and it was too loud.
For some reason, some people seem unable to see the difference.
And this is coming from someone who would like to see additional soft human factors to have a moderate impact in gameplay… but even I know that going the full-realism route would be way too much and ruin the game.
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You got bombed before you can even get a shot on your ennemy… that’s the real world.
→ in War Thunder such thing don’t happen because Tank players are completely ignorant of what is Modern Warfare (sometimes also called “3D warfare”, which regroup Tank + Aircrafts + Artillery)
…and War Thunder too lmao.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1fvl0ub/sorry_forgot_playing_tanks_isnt_possible_in_a/
And in any case, we are, once again, mixing up “realistic physics and damage modelling” with “real world enviornmental circumstances”.
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I think the sound is to “farty” lol
Hahahah, it is, indeed!
Just like the real thing;
The sound engineers working in War Thunder have been doing a really good job with the newest engine sounds… Challenger 2’s is my new favourite one!
I hope they update all engine sounds to be as accurate as these latest ones.
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Yeah a very unique sound indeed! But i think it should be a bit “deeper” in game, if that makes sense lol. Other than that it´s always awesome with new sounds!
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Ah, I see what you mean! That goes to many sounds ingame indeed; they could indeed benefit from having a bit of a “deeper growl” behind. The previous Leopard 2 engine sound had a similar issue and they changed it recently so now it has that deeper growl as well!
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Lol,… no, lmao
There is no aircrafts before first Tank engagement in-game,… you miss read me there.
Which means that IRL comparison is wrong.
Hey, i dont care at the end to much. If people think its a waste of time then i will happily be the OP guy shooting APHE everyone in the cupola and ruin their fun, not my issue at the end. I just want it more balanced. As i think its broken in its current form and unfair against many tanks that kinda rely on not getting weakspot oneshotted.
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