Uneven matckmaking

“You are meanwhile hard pressed for anyone willing to debate with you. Nor are you willing to raise your level, not just with me. Have a nice day…”

You are absolutely right that there may not be many who want to debate with me - and this may be based on the fact that many participants are happy and satisfied with the current MM system.

I am participating here - for the uncertain reason that I was hoping for - some constructive suggestions on how to IMPROVE the MM system - and with the primary purpose that it becomes more fair and takes into account e.g. BR+1.0 downtired enemies, non-spaded vehicles, crew level and players’ experiences, etc.

I’m not interested in hearing how talented some players feel - or about specific matches… they have fought… but in a broad debate about what GENERALLY happens in the game / issues with the MM system… and how we can CONSTRUCTIVELY develop some suggestions on how Gaijin can improve the game - for the good of all.

It is simply not fair conditions that you have to fight against BR +1 enemies. If this was a choice made by the players - this would be a self-choice. BUT now it’s Gaijin - it controls who and how many should be downtired… And then it cannot be true that a player can lose 15-20 games in a row when the player only makes up 1/16 of the match. etc (so called Matchfixng). It would be super if we could talk about- HOW TO IMPROVE WT… And not about everything else.

I don’t think that I have the perfect suggestions for a better MM … but if we all focus on, how to improve the MM system, then together we will be able to achieve improvements to the game. The more ideas the better.

This is about us all focusing on a SOLUTION and nothing else - but every solution is based on a problem/challenge and a desire for improvement. Here I see a tendency for us to discuss only whether there is a problem - or not … And from that, we will never get on with developing proposals for a solution.

If someone is completely satisfied with the current system - and that they do not see any challenges / necessary changes - they do not need to participate in the debate by criticizing the desire to improve the game for the good of all.

I apologize if I am too direct and honest in my comments - but do I experience attitudes where some players do not want to contribute constructively to improvements. I have no interest in debating further with the people behind it. and trying to “cut them out of the debate”.

This debate has been going on for several years – even at the old Forum – and not much has changed. … That is why I think we should revisit it.

For me, this is about (as the thread is called “Uneven Matchmaking = PROBLEM” - and thus to illuminate what challenges the players experience. This is not done by criticizing these - and writing “that there are no challenges”… but know that you listen to what the players experience - and together work to create a solution published for Gaijin. = SOLUTION.

Not employed by Gaijin, and never claimed the game is perfect - but what you’re saying is a steaming pile of monkey kaka - you still haven’t given proof of match fixing, all you’ve given is your opinions, which you keep stating as some sort of immutable fact when in fact they’re not facts but opinions… (still with me?)

I know, it’s hard for you kids these days to think things through, but please try?

Oh, the irony…

The upper player can still paly with their friends without screwing over their team with lesser mates.

All they have to do is send the upper tanks to holiday and load tanks on par with their friend. This is a much better (and fair) way of doing it.

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I have decided not to go into that loop of off-topic discussions and to focus on the problem / solution: Unfair and unequal / uneven matchmaking - and I apologize any off-topic discussion I have participated in. OK ?

In favour of a general restart in this topic. OP statement.

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OP felt it was uneven matchmaking but I think it isn’t - you can’t account for all variables during MM and as far as MM is concerned, it made 2 teams and that’s all there’s to it. Lollerstomps generally happen for a few reasons; if you’re being lollerstomped, it’s because 1) most of your team has decided another match looks nicer, 2) your team just isn’t that good, comparatively, or 3) the enemy team has more squads on it that actually work together (guess that can be tied into #2).

So. For #1: goes into the whole ODL/premium discussion which is also a can of fish that’s starting to smell a little bad. Not much you can do about it right now, short of hoping Gaijin will start enforcing having more than 1 vehicle in a lineup and penalising early leavers heavily, or gating high tier premiums behind TT progress. For both those solutions, I’m not holding my breath.

For #2: MM is supposedly only looking at vehicles and not at winrates or other statistics, officially. Unofficially I believe it does look at some aggregated stats per player but since that’s an absolute bitch to prove I’ll keep it at belief. Anyway. It’s not skill based, so it’s entirely possible for it to assemble 2 teams where the relative skill level of each team is wildly different.

For #3: a squad that coordinates is basically more lethal than a squad that doesn’t (yes, I’m being Captain Obvious here); if they’ve entered the match as a squad and ensured their lineups mesh well it’s an even bigger difference.

There’s of course more issues at play; one of them being Gaijin’s game modes and to a certain extent map design. Rather, not 100% map design, but cap and spawn point placement. At the moment in most domination matches, as soon as you lose all 3 caps, you’re boned - and a lot of people don’t want to see that and instead will focus on getting kills instead of getting caps back. And as soon as enough of your team has been removed from the field, you won’t be leaving spawn again.

Spawn point placement also plays a big part here; more often than not the first batch of kills is because people are sniping spawn to spawn - and what do most people do? They take out their best vehicle first. That means that in essence after the first minute or two of a match, whoever was more accurate or had the better sniping tanks tends to gain an advantage. Maybe not a big one, but an advantage nonetheless.

Thence endeth my rambling…

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At times, it is difficult to understand the uneven matchmaking.

Is the number of players unbalanced?

Yes and no. It depends on when you look at it. Even at the beginning of the battle we are blessed, even if rarely, with those who immediately flee back into the hangar. The reasons for this are varied and can be read often enough here in the forum. I am not a fan of leaving a battle before it has even begun.
Once the battle has started, it usually takes 3 minutes before the first ones are back in the hangar. And this is where the biggest imbalance usually comes into play. This usually increases the closer the enemy gets to your own spawn.
Many players prefer to avoid situations instead of confronting them. This is a general problem in our society.
Over a very long period of time, over several hundred battles, the ODL disadvantage is likely to be distributed equally between both teams. If you look at individual battles, the burden weighs heavily if you are the one who stays.
Unfortunately, the game mechanics allow such behaviour. This means that the balance of players in a battle always depends on their emotional and mental stability.
In short, it is the player’s decision to use this mechanic to avoid combat. I hope for more balance here. On the one hand you get a time penalty for leaving early, on the other hand lineups with a tank are allowed.

One match overwhelming win. One match overwhelming loss.

The balance problems explained above can easily be categorised here. They are one reason for the sometimes very quick and clear results.
Another important point is the players’ line-ups. There are players who take the time to build sensible lineups while others do not.
Here too, the players and their understanding of the game, the tanks/aircraft have a major influence on the battle.
Another influence is how well a player can handle the tanks they bring into battle. Here, too, there is sometimes a great gap between the skills of the players.
It currently only takes 2-3 very good players to influence the outcome of a battle. Sometimes even just one outstanding one …
What is the reason for the large differences here?
On the one hand that Gaijin explains the game mechanics badly and on the other hand the players who don’t realise that they lack basic understanding and could change things themselves. Players usually look for change on the outside and demand adjustments to the maps, armour and BR levels. It may make sense in some places, but not nearly as often as it currently seems here.
This becomes clear when you keep reading about demands to adjust tanks upwards in BR, which are usually dependent on their strong armour because otherwise they don’t enjoy any advantages.
This one-sided view of balance quickly leads to new problems.

Another important psychological aspect is that we humans tend to always see the negative. This is both a curse and a blessing. This clearly shows who is looking for change on the outside before they even look at what they can change in themselves.
Those who win often will not be as happy about it as they will be angry about a series of defeats.
Everyone can try this out for themselves. Play 20 battles and don’t look at how often you have lost or won. I have often been surprised myself that I had actually won 60%. Only the defeats often weighed heavier. Quite naturally.

There doesn’t seem to be a balance of opponents.

This is certainly the most controversial point. You have to look at the line-ups again.
A player like me, for example, likes to play with my favourite scout lineup in the USA. Recon can have a big impact on the outcome of the battle as players find it easier to look out for flashing icons than potentially dangerous spots.
What does the lineup look like?

  1. M56 … Scout ability, no armour, very manoeuvrable and high penetration.
  2. M41A1 … Scout capability, “armour”, manoeuvrable and high penetration.
  3. M50 … Scout capability, no armour, very manoeuvrable and extreme penetration.
  4. T92 … Scout ability, “armour”, manoeuvrable and high penetration.
  5. T95 … for battles in which you end up as a nasty surprise. Works wonderfully.
    With this lineup, I’m able to be everywhere quickly and do damage.
    If the enemy team has the right level of ignorance, this can quickly prove fatal.
    To be honest, how many players are really able to recognise the danger posed by light tanks?

And now I dare to make a very, very provocative statement. Far too many players have a problem recognizing which tanks and where on the map quickly becomes a problem.
Many players suffer from tunnel vision. At the beginning of a match you only see the one cap you want. Then you only see the opponents in your immediate surroundings. What happens left and right is often ignored and quickly becomes fatal. Someone else can take care of it.
Even with guns that have a rather low penetration, you can do a lot of damage on the flanks. A good example of this is the M24 which is deadly in the flank of a KV. Frontal… fast food.
And it is precisely these small differences in mobility, firepower and armor that make the game so special. It is important to compensate for your disadvantages compared to the other person through your skills.
There are tanks with which it is more difficult to balance this and there are tanks with which it is easier, see my US lineup from above.
I see Gaijin’s role as creating opportunities here. No equality.

Let’s play a thought game. Many players demand that they have to be able to fight their opponents head-on. Well, we grant them this wish in the thought game.
What does that mean for yourself? You are also easy to fight head-on by any other opponent.
In the end it will just be a matter of who fires the first shot. Vulnerabilities no longer matter.
And we are at a point in the game where this is already the case. Only rarely are tanks able to deal with others head-on.

There are certainly more aspects that come into play here. It was important to me to focus on how big the influence of one’s own skills can actually be on balance.
Anyone who now feels inclined to say that I am not able to acquire these skills should be told. You can do that!
Does that trigger you hard? It’s all the more important to take a look at why…

Finally…thank you if you made it this far. We don’t have to agree. If you think differently about it, then you can. You can even write it down here. Freedom of expression is important.

Did you check for battles in arcade ground or in general?

Did you quit a match before?

No I was the last survivor xD
Started as scout … went into plane … RTB and battle was lost.
I took the RB Battle count and the GRB winrate.

Sorry, but that is not a good idea. We are in the arcade section, where it is all vs all. In RB, you have nation win rate dependence. That may be responsible in part for what you see.

In arcade, I would find you picture far more worrysome than in realistic.

Thx for advice … missed that. Gonna delete it.

I have been searching all over the Forum - And this is quite interesting … because here I find not just one suggestion from you for improvements… or a solution to anything. ?

Look harder. And I thought you weren’t going to communicate with me? Oh, yeah, right, you wanted to get the last snarky word in… my bad.

Point stands.

OK - then please send me a link to some of your solutions ?

How about no?

Of course it’s a no … because you haven’t posted any solution.

Question: Are the MM rules in the Arcade the same as in the GRB?

So …
0.0 BR+ no uptier
0.3 BR+
0.7 BR+
1.0 BR+ full uptier

If so, I would be interested to know how often which uptier occurs in 10 matches with the same lineup.
As I am only recording statistics for GRB at the moment, I would like to compare them.

Are you wanting to know how it works currently, or asking someone to clarify their solution?

It’s always +/-1.0.

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I don’t play Arcade so I was curious.