So long as it starts at 7Br I dont care.I wont have to endure the cut n paste.As I said before ,I dont feel we need any new nations.I dont know why a moderator needed to sweep in and remove my opinion.
Just experimenting. I have a little time and have been working on a separate Independent version which will be updated at the beginning of the post, this Polish-Ukrainian tree, and another version (in-all 3 versions), just thought I’d share this for fun. Far from complete. This is a Polish-Ukrainian Tree with ranks 1-3 in progress as well as Rank 4-8 being touched up. The idea was created due to feedback, Ukraine using a lot of Polish equipment, very close relations, as well as had multiple military projects with one another. More notes can be found on the bottom.
Disclaimer: Respectfully critique it and just be fair to one another. Not asking for a lot. If you have legitimate ideas for correcting parts of it or provide a respectful reason why you don’t like it, I’m all ears.
Edit: Disregard the images not lining up, I’ll fix that later.
Additional Notes:
- Several other variants and vehicles can be added like the T-64E, Polish prototypes, etc.
- Poland does have an issue in filling out early ranks in which Ukraine cannot help all to much with the exception of the T-12 and T-24. Technically BT’s and T-34(76)'s can be added as well.
- A lot of stuff is foldered together to prevent having to struggle researching the tree; if I share the version that has foldered vehicles collapse, it’s a lot easier to research.
- Bayaktar TB2 can be used as the strike drone for both Ukraine and Poland, as both country’s use it.
- Poland and Ukraine’s helicopters and air equipment would support one another effectively with the cap being the AH-64E and F-16C/F-35A/FA-50PL respectively.
- A lot of Soviet-era equipment was used by both the People’s Republic of Poland and several Soviet-Ukrainian brigades.
3 Likes
poland is good enough as a stand alone tree, they dont need the addition of ukraine, besides that the leopard 2plM1 would be the exact same as the already existing 2pl in the game ," the upgrades were implementation PIX function, introduction function selection the last or first echo the laser range, introduction automatic system extinguishing fire fighting in compartment APU, Introduction system cold start to the engine without restart electronics devices, micro charging battery in battle tank during storage, electronics compartment active cooling, preparation electrical installation for identification Friend or Foe." which makes them the exact same as the current one for in game purposes at 11.3 The Dead District: Poland unveiled for the first time the Leopard-2PLM1 (a upgraded version of Leopard-2PL)
what even is the 2a5plm1 , that one doesnt even exist as far as i am aware, if you dont mean the standard 2pl which isnt a 2a5 or just the plain 2a5 poland owns
1 Like
I appreciate the input and don’t take this the wrong way. Poland does not have the full capability to have its own tree. This was trialed and proven many times by myself and some members who had created the Visegrad Tree. There are trees such as Pik’s who had built a good one, however, when you broke down the armaments and armor of the vehicles, they were placed in the wrong Ranks/over extended to fill gaps. Poland shines the best at Rank 1-2 and Rank 6-8. While they have many vehicles scattered throughout most Ranks, some Ranks are empty or with one vehicle. Poland would have to be attached to another nation or Poland having a sub-tree of it’s own. I am a very strong advocate for a Polish tree and did what I could to make its own tree but it only goes so far. I’ve created a Polish Tree and a Polish Sub-tree (and multiple other nation trees) before, rearranged it with multiple inputs that struggled to have a balanced/complete tree. As for this project, this was just an experiment due to Ukraine and Poland working on multiple projects as well as Ukraine utilizing much of Poland’s equipment. It’s not a final say whatsoever. Not to mention its not complete anyway.
As for the Leopard 2PL (M1) it was added like that to offer the use of either one since as stated, there isn’t much of a difference. The BR was changed to add modern ammo for the PL.
The Leopard 2A5PL M1 is a Polish modernization of the Leopard 2A5 in service with Polish Ground Forces that focuses on firepower and survivability. The vehicle itself remains relatively the same as it’s predecessor, maintaining the same propulsion systems with no major changes to the hull. The main focus was the upgrade of the Gunner’s optics, replacing the previous sight in the EMES-15 fire control system with the indigenous KLW-1 Asteria 3rd-generation thermal camera that operates in 7,7-9,3 μm – MCT detector of III generation, screen resolution 640×512 pixels and the addition of a fully-stabilized ZSMU-1276A3B Remote Weapon Station armed with a 12.7mm WKM-B Heavy Machine Gun. The remote weapon station is equipped with a day sight, thermal camera, and six GAK-81 81mm smoke grenade launchers.
2 Likes
I don’t really see how Poland is any worse than other options such as Yugoslavia while I also think it’s better than most Israeli style tree.
Considering you support the idea of Yugoslavia but mot independent Poland, what is the dealbreaker there?
1 Like
Its the ability to balance the equipment evenly through multiple Ranks. Yugoslavia is weak in some areas, however, equipment can be balanced more evenly in terms of armament, etc. than what Poland can do. I’d like to use my Visegrad tree as an example which if you pick out the Polish vehicles, gives you an idea of what it has available.
I guess that is a fair point, but wouldn’t Poland be very workable in an independent Israeli-style?
It would be an huge waste of the low tier, but it would make the tree strong in the areas that seem most relevant for the game these days.
2 Likes
generaly it still is a bad idea, if you want to increase their br only for ammo purposes, the real 12.0 vehicles will have better armor while also have the equivalent thermals and the same rounds, generaly the pl variants have no place at 12.0
Poland struggles at Rank 4 and 5. Specifically Rank 4 would struggle hard without a massive influx of copy and paste and even then its gapped pretty good. I’ve tried it when I was building a tree to post in Pik’s Poland tree suggestion. It would be best starting later at Rank 6.
Edit: Clarified 2 posts down.
The PL remains pretty potent with its very tough turret (in a lot of cases). It has similar use to the playstyle of the Abrams and it’s weak LFP. Given the PL has Gen III thermals and if it had its better round, it would excel pretty well. Each vehicle has other significant differences but I’m focusing on the overall playstyle.
As for the tree, I appreciate inputs, it was just an experiment is all.
I could’ve worded that a bit better. Poland wouldn’t succeed all too well at Rank 4 with the copy and paste. It would be a more diversity than Israel (an extra vehicle or two) in comparison but the main difference between the two would be large BR gaps in the Polish tree. You’ve got T-34-85, the Polish M1/M2 variants, ASU-85, BWP-1, IS-2, 2S1 Gvozdika, the Hibernyt would be your starting AA, the Krak afterward, and that’s the gist of it.
Rank 5 you can have the BWP-1M Puma, the M120 Rak(G), the T-54, T-54AM, IS-3, ZSU-57-2, OT-64 SKOT-2AM, Dana’s and not much more. It may sound like a lot but if you put this on a visual, its pretty bare. Rank 3 has like 6 vehicles total.
1 Like
besides that i think you are overestimating dm63, dm63 performs the same as dm 53 it only got better temperature range and was less prone to exploding it i think, thats why its original name is dm53a1 as well since it is only an minor upgrade. Only DM73 is an actual upgrade but requires the l55a1 to be fired. Those the DM63 arguably is to weak for 12.0 as well
1 Like
That’s a fair argument, the PL could sit at 11.7 (with its better round) with the only other vehicles exceeding that are the K2PL and M1A2 SEPv3 (which I haven’t added specifically).
poland got m1a2 sep 2 as well, to start training, should be useable as well, since hungary tree got the 2a4 which was for training as well
Absolutely. I had them in mind, I just didn’t want to oversaturate things since there was several Leopard’s in the tree, the M1A1 FEP, and the BM-Oplot. I’ll see what I can do.
Edit: I think I’m going to struggle pretty good with Ranks 1-3 in my Polish-Ukrainian experiment. We’ll see.
Poland and Ukraine makes less sense -1. Keep the research trees together, Nobody is trying to grind two different nations just to go on to the next T-64 modification.
1 Like
I respect that stance.
To me, Poland and Ukraine have a legitimate strong connection however, there are also other opportunities for Poland and this was just an experiment and I don’t foresee this happening. I’m also not advocating for it, just testing.
I also don’t know what you mean on going to the next T-64 modification. In all the tree is split between the two nations with many of the well requested vehicles in them.
My points of creating this tree:
- They’re both heavy users of Soviet equipment and meld well together because of this.
- They both have strong arms industries that coordinate with one another like the PT-16/17, ERA, missiles, etc.
- Ukraine is a heavy user of Polish equipment that it has received through purchases and donations.
- Finding alternatives for both Poland and Ukraine which both suffer from similar issues.
2 Likes
thats not exactly true, polish arms industry is rather bad, thats why they buy foreign equipment and went with k2 because of the chance to produce them at their own country since germany denied that possibility with the leopard
I use the word ‘strong’ in the sense that they actively are coming out with upgrades/producing, equipment, vehicles, etc. unlike many nations who can only purchase through foreign sales. Many nations don’t have an arms industry at all.
2 Likes
This is an interesting concept of the Polish-Ukrainian tree:
-Poland can give vehicle 1 and 2 of the tree although vehicles 4 can complement the tree of Ukraine although it is not bad.
-
Poland could strengthen the Ukrainian aviation tree with planes 1 and 2 of the tree. 3 will be a copy and so is the 4th armored tree.
-
Strong coastal fleet tree for Poland and Ukraine! Ukraine used the captured monitors and ships in Poland in 1939. A good example of the Kraków monitor, its modifications and its service until the 1941 war.
-
No matter how you look at it, there is cooperation in drones, helicopters, military planes between Poland and Ukraine, and the latest one is that Poland will technically service and repair Ukrainian F-16s and make modifications.
-In addition, after 2015-2022, Ukraine purchased BWP-1 and 2S1 Gvozdika produced in Poland
-Oncilla is an armored car produced by the Mista company from Polish Stalowa Wola for Ukraine Army.
1 Like