so the 6km lock in all aspect range does only count for flying carriers? come on! i get a f5 is smaller than a mig23 but a hovering KA52/52 at 3.5 km cant be that impossible even when he is turning and showing me his sides does not work. thats silly because the magnification nowadays in optics makes a 3km target apear like a moon…
Lets not forget the size of the practice drones Japan uses to test their missiles compared to actual size of the aircrafts, which are as big as a bus… if they can lock onto these small thin, drones then they should be able to lock on helicopters and jets head on with ease…
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well if you can’t lock KA-50/52 near 4km then it’s certainly not because the size, probably because he still flying too low. KA-50/52 cannot lock by optical at 7km ish i think.
the problem is we did not know the seeker head lock size. if you look at the Strela, they have smaller seeker which making them better at locking and ignoring ground clutter.
the current seeker lock is most likely the same as stinger
ah right, it was the seeker POV. the strela is better because the seeker pov is smaller, while i think the type 81c was stuck with stinger seeker pov. unless people got any information for that, you have to make do with the current horrible seeker
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too low? i can lock on low flying jets and hit the freaking ground due that often. and what is too low? below 7km altitude?
What mode do you use? Pretty sure there is no way for type 81c lock onto any aircraft that flying on ground level in optical lock because ground interference.
Ok let me explain how optical lock works.
It works by locking the shape of the aircraft.
It cannot lock if they aircraft near ground or have having a back ground, causing interference.
Locking range depend on the size of the aircraft to the seeker pov.
With that said you cannot lock helicopter if they are near the ground or having mountain in it’s back.
If it’s big helo you can’t lock beyond 7km AWAY from you at any altitudes.
If it’s small helo you can’t lock beyond 3.5km AWAY from you at any altitudes.
Also this is mostly guesstimate and personal experience, since you know. Optical lock is depend on the size of aircraft.
Haven’t tried optical lock or IR lock that much for Jet. I mostly use the auto for them, since they are moving too fast and not really have much time changing mode. so I can’t really said much for them
man my initial post was saying a clear blue sky in the background, heli is higher than 800 meters and closer than 4km and still no lock despite switching back and forth heatseeker / optical. and no its not targetting the shape of the aircraft its using contrast as far as i know, the shape changes of course while it maneuvers…
Tha thing is broken as many other things in the game and i dont get why people still trying to explain how its working whan its not working this way it should. i get when its cloudy or even night but a clear blue sky closer than 4km and no trees beneath for 500m, i mean come on man thats broken! i could manually fire that missle and still hit it by aiming!
yes like i said it was depend on the size of the target. like what heli that you failed to lock on, you never specified. and it is a lock using contrast by the shape of aircraft and the background, in this case clear sky.
look i played like 1k of it, i know the frustration but it is what it is. you played with how bad it is or use another vehicle.
ah yes let it be unrealistically bad bc why not?
unless you got an undisclosed information other than what we got. sure go ahead forward it to Gaijin.
it’s not like people already used all information that available especially the CCD.
man I WOULD KILL TO KNOW WHAT POV OF THE SEEKER.
like what are talking about
thats the problem, this is the only SPAA in top tier in line with pantsir, OTOMATIC, ITO, FlakRakRad aso…the other japan SPAA has even lower range and isnt very effective with Hi G and heat seeker. Only good thing it can shoot while moving and thats what it has to do a lot behind enemy lines to get in range…
and it doesnt matter what heli, its KA´s its Apache its Tigers it all of them top tier.
It does matter you cannot lock tiger heli size beyond 3km, Apache size beyond 4 or 5, and KA-50s at 6 or 7.
Then you have to make do, or find document for it like everybody else.
Like i said it is what it is. Just like the Italy with the OTO , you have to make do with Type 81 C.
Or grind those air trees and start doing CAP.
For top tier; it’s pretty much mandatory at this point.
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That’s pretty much what I did.
I hate ARB but I know I can grind air tree in GRB especially with the F-5FCU. So I did made an 11.7 line up with FCU, Type 81C, EJ Kai, TKX-Type 10, and AH-64DJP.
Until I got the F-15JM with stock AIM-120 which then I made full top tier at F-15JM BR.
You can clearly see my record on plane, like the F-1 or T-2 which I just made them base bomber without care of KD.
thats why i asked it needs to be a flying carrier bejond 3,5 km? i mean its 11.3 in top tier what technology is to expect in this BR? DO 110 bombers? i am not convinced that this thing in reality needs to have -3km on modern helicopters…
yes, it is because INGAME the seeker POV is defaulted similar to stinger!
like i said it was the problem of the target size and POV!
god unless you got unrestricted information of the POV, you need to accept that this is the best of the Type 81C can be.
imo gajin has to balance the game and give the nations as similar abilitys, adding a pantsir on one hand and giving a way worse SPAA to another nation is absolutly unfair. i bet there would have been more possibilitys in japan SPAA or its missles it can carry than this junk. if not donw add stupid unbalancing stuff to other nations, period.
by MAUSWAFFE:
Yeah, it’s pretty misrepresented in game. It’s missing a lot of features…
SAM-1C ARH missiles
ARH missiles are obviously the most notable, having a 14km effecive range with PESA active radar seeker. This would finally elevate Japanese SAM to actually match the almost Pantsir BR in range and could be used effectively at night.
The missile can be launched in two ways, either by locking the target befpre launch like we are used to with current missiles, or by launching without lock and having the missile independently search for a target within FOV. The second method is useful when you can’t quite get a lock on a target within range, as the missile might get a lock once it gets closer. Datalink locks after launch are not possible, as that requires a separate FCS radar vehicle.
The drawbacks of this missile would be the missile showing up on RWR and the 60m multipathing all radar missiles have in game for balance purposes (though this one might be changed at some point).
SAM-1C lightwave missiles (current missiles)
Currently, they are falsely modeled as photocontrast, when the actual missile uses a low noise CCD visible light imaging seeker. This essentially means that instead of simply tracking any perceived contrast it saves the specific image of the contrast it first locks, preventing interference of other contrasts such as the ground or any other objects.
Losing lock only occurs when the contrast of the target can no longer be differenciated from the background, which can be in low light conditions, when the target is obscured by another object, or when it blends in with its surroundings.
A black Ka-50 in the snow for example should have no chance to lose the seeker without obscuring itself behind cover, no matter how low it flies.
The launch modes of the ARH variant also apply to this missile, allowing not only for lock on before launch, but also launch without lock and self search functionality. This is especially useful on the lightwave missiles as these can suffer great range penalties from bad weather or nighttime conditions that could be worked around by launching the missile in the direction of a target and having it lock later.
Another issue with this missile is range. Since it shares the same missile body and motor as the ARH missile, it has a kinetic range of at least 14km, same as the ARH variant. This increase would also help add usefulness to the self searching missile launch.
Misc.
Other issues include:
- Lack of lead indicator; This is annoying for close launches before the missile starts maneuvering, but is only really relevant when we have launch without lock and seems excluded for all SAMs without cannon so far.
- Wrong top speed; It is 90km/h, while it shout be 105km/h.
- Missing crew member; It should have a crew of 3 rather than just 2. This is fixed in the upcoming update.
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you just giving me that people already know. i know it could be better but again, information. just saying it have stuff does not make it works in War Thunder. IRL≠War Thunder, gaijin will add based on information that available.
just like the Type 10 Vertical guidance that have >30°/s. meaning it should have at least 31°/s but gaijin in their infinite wisdom pick the 30°/s, why? i don’t know, but it is what it is. again unless people got ANY MORE information, this is what you have to deal with.
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i did find it very informative and thats something to consider that mauswaffe has infos that for sure do have gajin as well. it is what it is i hear often from you and thats the reason people and myself adressing it so its gonna change…
is not like there are already numerous reports about it but nothing happens, just like the CVT on type 10s
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