Type 81 C

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
1

Whats wrong with this thing? i get it that such heavy missles will dip down after start but there is something horribly wrong. Trying to compensate it by aiming upward way above the target , eg. a low flying helicopter above a tree line, and this missle still choosing an down arc vector before going high.

that seems not realistic because aiming all the way up should result in the missle is going upward since its a freakin AA missle! mebe it has a drop but deciding to change its trajectory towards the bottom makes absolutly no sense, it does happen quite often no matter the trajactory of the target is going upwards aswell.

3 Likes
2

No idea, a lot of missiles just seem to go straight into the ground… but an SPAA without radar and that cannot get a lock beyond 5km consistently at the same BR as a Pantsir clearly needs to be nerfed.

5 Likes
3

Can you share a video?

4

May be not realistic but it is what it is on the game, I suggest you quickly pointing the launcher up then firing while locked into the target, is the best viable way to shoot something flying low.

1 Like
5

thats exactly what i am doing but still it goes flying like " under the radar " until it finally going upward. its not always but its like 50/50

6

yeah it overcompensates heavily but is not a big problem and makes it so satisfying to watch

8

When firing missiles, aim upwards, that missile can pull some nasty G’s sooooo will always garantee a kill for low flying jets…

9

Yeah, it’s pretty misrepresented in game. It’s missing a lot of features…

SAM-1C ARH missiles

ARH missiles are obviously the most notable, having a 14km effecive range with PESA active radar seeker. This would finally elevate Japanese SAM to actually match the almost Pantsir BR in range and could be used effectively at night.

The missile can be launched in two ways, either by locking the target befpre launch like we are used to with current missiles, or by launching without lock and having the missile independently search for a target within FOV. The second method is useful when you can’t quite get a lock on a target within range, as the missile might get a lock once it gets closer. Datalink locks after launch are not possible, as that requires a separate FCS radar vehicle.

The drawbacks of this missile would be the missile showing up on RWR and the 60m multipathing all radar missiles have in game for balance purposes (though this one might be changed at some point).

SAM-1C lightwave missiles (current missiles)

Currently, they are falsely modeled as photocontrast, when the actual missile uses a low noise CCD visible light imaging seeker. This essentially means that instead of simply tracking any perceived contrast it saves the specific image of the contrast it first locks, preventing interference of other contrasts such as the ground or any other objects.
Losing lock only occurs when the contrast of the target can no longer be differenciated from the background, which can be in low light conditions, when the target is obscured by another object, or when it blends in with its surroundings.
A black Ka-50 in the snow for example should have no chance to lose the seeker without obscuring itself behind cover, no matter how low it flies.

The launch modes of the ARH variant also apply to this missile, allowing not only for lock on before launch, but also launch without lock and self search functionality. This is especially useful on the lightwave missiles as these can suffer great range penalties from bad weather or nighttime conditions that could be worked around by launching the missile in the direction of a target and having it lock later.

Another issue with this missile is range. Since it shares the same missile body and motor as the ARH missile, it has a kinetic range of at least 14km, same as the ARH variant. This increase would also help add usefulness to the self searching missile launch.

Misc.

Other issues include:

  • Lack of lead indicator; This is annoying for close launches before the missile starts maneuvering, but is only really relevant when we have launch without lock and seems excluded for all SAMs without cannon so far.
  • Wrong top speed; It is 90km/h, while it shout be 105km/h.
  • Missing crew member; It should have a crew of 3 rather than just 2. This is fixed in the upcoming update.
5 Likes
10

thats what i do always but you have to stay in the lock circle and even locked and aiming further upwards that freakin missle gets low and hit houses, ground etc.
besides that, in that BR i am paired with russia and as soon 1 pantsir is on the field i am useless. i have to compete against otomatic, pantsirm flakrad, ITO and the likes. i dont understand how its in the same BR when i cant do sh it bejond 5km or at night. theres not often comeing anything in my lock range with thos other spaas in my team…

11

thank you, i hope they ll add the real usefull missles. or at least a different spaa that can compete in this BR

12

because of the missile aerodynamic changes they implemented about half a year ago, missiles now have actual control surfaces that will adjust how it flies and when a large/heavy missile is that slow, there isnt enough lift generated by the wings to compensate for the effect of gravity with how the game is coded. you have to loft the missile up quite a bit and have that cancel out the drop to gravity until its fins get enough speed to counter the effect

1 Like
13

ok u r the 3rd i am telling this: i know this and i try to compensate by aiming upward but the missle is not falling or dipping down by gravity in many cases it is not even trying to go upward, it follows a trajactory that is absolutly exaggerated. For example a hovering Heli that is lowering altitude by only 30 cm per minute makes this missle go into the ground…

14

you have to loft it quite aggressively only for it to fly a normal flight trajectory I know, I’ve tested it quite a bit myself. What you’re talking about is the missile calculating the point of impact being below the ground as it tries to fly the most optimal path to the target. Unfortunately, the code is set that way and we need to be the ability to change flight path like with the Pantsir S1 and Tor M1 if its going to be changed.

15

This ⬆️ Got to be aggressive when aiming up just to avoid hitting the ground or building. Its how i am able to down low flying A-10s or Su-25s or any jet. Pretty much make it act like a missile launch going up then down or something lol Really cool to see it and get the kill.

I really want the ARH missile for better range and easy lock against helis/further CAS targets. SOOOO BAD…

16

i want to see the IR Missile fixed as well, with the actual range and no problems locking at helis at more than 3km

17

Okay its bejond my comprehension why they re not fixing this sh*t! hovering helis at 4,5 kilometers, switched to contrast mode in a perfect clear blue sky and yet i cant get a freakin lock on! So basicly Japan has no SPAA in many matches, especially besides teamed up with russia, USA sweden and germany, s soon thier spaa on the field i am even more useless! get this thing fixed finally!

4 Likes
18

its just driving me mad, still no lock bejond 3,5 km at a clear sky…missles extremely dip down unrealistic. With that lock issues u have seriously trouble aiming upward IF you manage to lock for a second that leads to the situation you just fire the missle before loosing the lock, 50% of the times u freaking hit the ground. Absolutly trash SPAA in a somewhat great nation over all. my god fix finally that thing!

19

Yeah, i’ve been suffering for some time with it now, specially since the implementation of the su25m3 and kh 38, lock is good but predicted path and range are bad and still lock problems with helis

20

Still think they could implement a AWACS system that would scan and ping air space on demand for radarless top tier spaa

1 Like
21

i think you forget that optical lock depend on the size of the target.
you still need to be close to lock small target, like Tiger HUT and Z10 etc.

this is also why plane on head-on are harder to lock than when they are showing their belly.
it simply how they are right now.