Tornado GR.4: Tenacious Tonka

[richthofen122]

So the Gr.4 is basically DOA and honestly they should just forget about adding it at all. Either you do it properly or not at all.

[AlvisWisla]

Prove that KH-38 and AGM-65 are radar-guided AGMs.
False equivalence fallacies are fallacies for a reason.
You cannot compare the Challenger 2 to the BMP-3 either.

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

If 38 exists, Brimstone should too in a less screwed up form. Grom arguably also adds to the “can strike from outside the range of AAs”. Hell, even GBU 39s are more effective than Brimstone, and they’re glide bombs.

[TheSoloWing_Pixy]

So what do you think is a good comparison, you didn’t even let players test that in DEV, and then robbed the children of their opportunity like a drunk parent.

[AgentZombie_6021]

You cant compare the Challenger 2 to the BMP3 in a broad sense. But when you give a criteria (for example only its not a serious thing)

“Thermals are too good for the game as they are strong against low tier tanks” and you choose to give one thermals and the other doesn’t get them. That’s a case where they indeed can be compared, and the flaws in the argument can be pointed out.

The KH38 and Brimstone function differently, but when given the reason “it outranges SPAA, victims cant defend themselves, and it can hit through smokes” when the KH38 can do ALL THREE… yeah you can compare them.

Now I dont think the mmW seeker should be modeled, rather just… model them like basic IR FNF missiles-

[Morvran]

Those looked insane, as did the glide bombs on the F-15E. Both weapon systems massively out perform Brimstone even with a basic FnF mechanic

[AlvisWisla]

GROM doesn’t add that, it’s not even the 4th glide bomb/missile to be added with that type of range.

@Morvran
GPS guided bombs go to a static location.

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

I’m of the mind, put Brimstone in properly, let the yanks and ruskis cry until they inevitably get something that can either defeat them or compete.

[MommyDommyEnjyr]

@Fluffy_Bucketles

If 38 exists, Brimstone should too in a less screwed up form.

Your problem here is assuming Kh38s should exist… I said day 1 those AGMs never should have been added, they are simply to good vs what we have available.

Brimstones and Kh38s should not be present in the game for balance reasons. I will always advocate for realism where possible but brimstone in full functionality would be completely uncounterable beyond a SAM hitting the missile directly.

Kh38s are still to a degree not visible post launch thanks to radar dead zones and smokeless trailer once the booster runs out. and have posed a threat from day 1 when Su25s just yeet them before every getting launched on by a SAM.

Neither should be in the game personally

[Morvran]

Problem is, they would.

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

We’ve already opened the box. Yanks and Ruskis won’t let us close it.

[Fluffy_Bucketles]

Yeah, unfortunately.

[MommyDommyEnjyr]

@Fluffy_Bucketles

We’ve already opened the box. Yanks and Ruskis won’t let us close it.

That door can be closed as proof by brimstone being added in a half baked mechanic… I see utterly no reason why they can subjectively butcher an AGM by not giving a feature (which i agree with not being given) but somehow are fine with kh38s being un touchable by some SAMs entirely

[Smin1080p_WT]

@Fluffy_Bucketles

Except it is. It directly demonstrates the double standard.

There is a massive difference between the two. The news post details this, but to break it down more, I’ll share Gunjobs breakdown again:

@Gunjob

KH-38

1. it needs line of sight to the target for each target
2. manually queued for each target
3. clear day as clouds block the seeker
4. hope no one deploys smoke during flight

Brimstone ARH

1. does not need line of sight
2. doesn’t need to manually queue
3. is all weather
4. doesn’t care about smoke

The two are not the same at all.

[MommyDommyEnjyr]

@Smin1080p_WT

There is a massive difference between the two.

why are you comparing them on a mechanic/feature level… compare them on a balance perspective, your entire claim is then thrown out the door

[Smin1080p_WT]

@Fluffy_Bucketles

I’m of the mind, put Brimstone in properly, let the yanks and ruskis cry until they inevitably get something that can either defeat them or compete.

This is part of the issue if your entire understanding is that just two nations will be impacted. Everyone within the battle, regardless of nation, including your own teammates, will be impacted with Brimstone in it’s other modes.

[AgentZombie_6021]

@Smin1080p_WT

KH-38

1. it needs line of sight to the target for each target
2. manually queued for each target
3. clear day as clouds block the seeker
4. hope no one deploys smoke during flight

1. This is true (so just model Brimstones like basic IR FNF weapons)
2. This is true (model it like basic IR FNF weapons)
3. This is a blatant lie, the missiles work like a charm in cloudy weather
4. This is also a blatant lie, because smoke doesn’t stop the KH38, it will still guide through it and has a blast radius so massive it’ll kill the tank in the smoke unless it fully relocates. (did I mention this missile moves ridiculously fast and there’s a TV guided version that gives no warning what so ever?)

[Smin1080p_WT]

@MommyDommyEnjyr

why are you comparing them on a mechanic/feature level… compare them on a balance perspective, your entire claim is then thrown out the door

The two are entirely interlinked. Brimstone is massively different and it’s fesures and the implications of those are directly related to balance.

[Smin1080p_WT]

@TheSoloWing_Pixy

So what do you think is a good comparison

There is no comparison to Brimstone in game with it’s F&F modes. That’s exactly the point and what is explained within the dev blog.

[Rebound_Pyro]

Make the brimstone laser fire and forget and were happy