Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the conversation.
I think there might be a fundamental gap in understanding here that’s hard to bridge. You see it as a purely mechanical game decision—‘Thai tank in Thai subtree’. From your perspective, our reaction must seem completely irrational.
I sincerely apologize if my words cause discomfort or offense to anyone. That is absolutely not my intention. I only use this example to try to bridge a gap in understanding, as it’s the closest analogy I can think of to convey the profound symbolic weight this situation carries for many Chinese players.
That’s the closest equivalent to how this feels. It’s not about ‘owning’ the tank or denying Thailand’s right to use it. It’s about the context of its placement being emotionally charged and painful due to history that is very much alive in the collective memory here.
We believe that in a global game, developers have a responsibility to be aware of these sensitivities and choose options that are fun for everyone, not just mechanically convenient. A more neutral solution would avoid causing this kind of pain altogether.
I agree with this part, but I don’t think the issue is unsolvable.
This issue comes from the idea of subtrees meaning subordinate nations, which I don’t like either. The VT-4 was legally bought by Thailand, that part will never be a problem, the problem is how the game depicts Thailand not as an equal ally but a subpordinate.
I made a suggestion about a possible rework for subtrees that (among other things) solves this issue.
After this rework, there is no more “main nation” or “sub nation” in the traditional sense, but it is a group of equally presented nations. It would still have the same gameplay functionality such as shared lineups, however there is no clearly defined “main nation”, since all get their own research tree under their own national flag and name within their folder of nations.
Selecting the Thai research tree for example would look like this, showing the vehicles under a Thai flag in the nation of Thailand.
In terms of Gameplay, this offers little change, however it is a much more fair representation for each nation and avoids such sensitive historical issues.
Word of advice, before we continue, you might want to edit your post and leave out the historical events you mention, otherwise mods might remove it alltogether.
yes, thanks
Anyway,
Believe me, i absolutely understand the historical background as reasons for not wanting chinese vehicles in japanese TT.
Im czech, so anytime they add czech or czechoslovak vehicle to USSR, I must laugh a little bit.
So, if the issue was opposing the addition of chinese vehicles or china as a subtree to the Japan, I would 100% agree with you.
However.
China is standalone TT, Japan is standalone TT. Tank in question isnt chinese tank being placed into japanese TT.
Its a thai tank (as in used by thailand) put into thailand subtree.
I got what you mean. And to answer the thing
Do you think devs, or most people, care what one feels like?
Ngl players for sure should be concerned about addition of one thing to another, and feelings are also taken into account.
However a certain part of community purely bases its demands on feelings, which is wrong. If we are deadass going by facts and not feelings, VT-4 should not be as much of an issue as people base it on feelings.
And even if, say, Pakistan was sold a Type 10, thus making it and independent operator, and Pakistan is proclaimed to be sub-tree, I see no problem with inclusion of said Pakistani (≠ Japanese because operator) tank into corresponding sub-tree within Chinese TT. And I wouldn’t ask Japanese what they think about it too much, because the game is based not on feelings (alone at least) but mostly on feasibility, and provided China, say, doesn’t have proper reload speed and round, Type 10’s inclusion is supported by numerous facts (≠ feelings).
And Thai (≠ Chinese) VT-4 can be that one of a few 11.3 tanks that might reduce the 9.7-11.7 jump. But again, feelings come in clutch because reasons…
Sadly gaijin already decided that Thailand is subtree of Japan, and to my knowledge they never went back on such decision.
sad
You’ve made a perfect distinction. I fully support the VT-4 being added to the game as a Thai vehicle ; it’s a reasonable design based on historical fact.
The only thing I oppose is the top-level design choice of placing it under the Japanese tech tree via a Thai subtree . It is this framework itself, not the tank, that is the root of the problem. It symbolically places a modern sovereign nation’s equipment within a particular historical framework, which inevitably triggers controversy.
Therefore, the ideal solution remains the creation of an independent Pan-Asian or Southeast Asian tech tree . This would allow the VT-4 and other Thai vehicles to be included without any controversy, while simultaneously adding more diverse content to the game. It avoids all sensitivities at their root and achieves a true win-win.
The 10 Nations are small right? Tech tree wise
Given some replies lately i feel we’re at that road again where this needs to be said.
Stay on topic and discuss VT-4 and T-84.
Any offtopic comments will be hidden and author will be punished.
Again, This is not the place to discuss historial flags / decals or past countries involvements in certain wars or conflicts. It is also not the place to discuss anything political.
You will be removed from commenting all-together. This topic is about the vehicles only, Leave everything else out of it.
If you have issues with your removed comment, Pm me or another forum mod. Don’t discuss it here.
So you want to turn current Japan into “Pan-Asia” right?
Yeah, I am also quite confused with interpretation of it. Wouldn’t it be… even worse and controversial?
If the idea is to just rename the tree I honestly think at this point it might be the easiest option to solve this.
An “ASEAN techtree with Japan subtree” is functionally the same, but doesn’t have the implications Chinese players have an issue with. And for Gaijin changing the techtree flag and name is very easy and quick too.
I believe that’s off-topic right now, but no country in-game is ever called or represented after formal economic-political union that is not a geographical unit (USSR is not to be counted)
They won’t be happy is that really happened, because they will argue that is GEACPS TT
2 Nations get added to Japan. 1 of them a single vehicle.
“ITS THE GEACPS!!!”
This would be bad for me, but I still agree that it would be the best thing for everyone who complains about this, so I approve this idea. This would be bad for me because I like to play in Japanese, I hope it could be adjusted in the settings.
Just to put it out there even if this gets removed, technically Indonesia wasnt yet even a thing back when GEACPS was formed. Only Philippines, Siam, and Burma was there to represent SEA (well along with Wang Jingwei’s collaborationist China).
Please can you explain this to me? Are you thinking of removing Japan from the game? I didn’t understand this image, I’m sorry.