Top Tier is unplayable

Hello everyone,

I have been playing Warthunder since 2017 so 6 years no…
I have seen the game evolve and get sometimes better and worse with time as a french main but who plays many other tech trees such as USA, USSR, Germany, Italy, Israel…

And now I am reporting something really important to the game developpers who work hard to make the game the best military-related-game:

Top Tier for small/secondary tech trees is getting absolutely unplayable.

1/ France is cruelly missing many many significant vehicles for its ground tech tree which are EASY to implement as we already have the VAB in-game first of all.

2/ Then, I can’t get why Gaijin decided to implement the spall liner if only 40% of the Top tier tanks that have it IRL have it in-game. If they did not have all the necessary info to implement such mechanics they should not have implemented that at all.

3/ If we can get Grippen (first flight in 1988), why can’t we get the first Rafale ? (first flight 1986) implemented with Magic 2s ? (Works for many other aircrafts)

4/ France top tier really needs eaither correct armor or correct ammo because absolutely unrealistic and unplayable/unbalanced, so not interest for gaijin to keep it like that. Why do all the big nation can get unbalanced or unrealistic stats when the have more armor in-game than the Leclercs ? Like this is complete nonsense ! It’s either realism or balance but not realism for some and shitty stats for its opponent ! Works for the all the Leopards, all the T and all the Abrams-series.

5/ Why Abrams buffed to 5s reload ? Unrealistic and unbalanced as well.

6/Matra R550D unplayable and unbalanced.

7/ Su27 is totally unplayable and unbalanced to fight against in air RB.

8/ Pantsir S1 is absolutely unplayable to fight against as a French CAS whereas French Anti Airs cannot touch anything for some reason their missile can’t follow the direction it is given to follow…

9/Ka-50 an Ka-52 are absolutely unplayable to fight against. Need either balance or removal.

10/ Basically anything that is russian-related in-game in overpowered at its core and need S E R I O U S changes, the russian bias has become unbearable for French, English, Italian, Japanese, and Israeli mains.

11/ How can the UK get the Challenger 3 (which at the moment is only a prototype) when France can’t get any of the thousands of vehicles devs could add for France mid to top-tier without too much effort as many of the cassis are already in-game ???

I may add more points later/rewrite the topic later bc it’s 5a.m.; this game will make me kill myself very soon if this continues.



120mm Abrams reload buff was likely introduced by Gaijin in order to distract/appease players with regard to the ongoing drama surrounding Abrams hull armor.

As far as I can tell, nobody asked for this (not even the US mains).

Personally I’d like to see all MBTs receive their correct armor values, no matter the nation.

I sympathize with your cause to improve the France TT and other minor nations, but this can be done without dragging others down.


If it’s unplayable, stop playing at top tier.

There are hundreds of vehicles in the game. And they’re actually semi-accurate to their real life counterparts unlike the modern tanks.


As a Brit main. Honestly I have absolutely no idea what they were thinking on this one.

We did not ask for it and didnt really want it. In fact the absolutely last thing we wanted out of this last patch was another MBT. Instead, we somehow got 2.

The only conclusion I can come to regarding why we got the Challenger 3, is that the Challenger 2s realisitc drawback, is the lack of mobility. With an ever increasing emphasis on CQB in GRB. The CR2s just weren’t cutting it anymore and so they decided to add the Challenger 3 which has improved mobility.

It also has different shells, which helps mitigate the fact that L27A1s are modeled horrifically badly and they dont seem to ever want to fix them.

Truth is, we wanted some decent IFVs. A later warrior or Ajax, etc. Something to match vehicles like the Puma, KF-41, HSTV-L, 2S38, etc etc.

Or alternatively we wanted someting to supplement the ADATS at top tier like the Tracked Rapier, or a SPAA to support/replace the Stormer.

In short, we had a very very long list of vehicles we wanted them to add. They added the one no one expected and no one wanted. Most likely purely to distract from the ever growing list of issues with the Challenger 2s


Meanwhile you aren’t doing so hot in your bias machines, go figure.

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They literally stated it was a buff since they were unwilling to model spall liners or add the DU upgrade to the LFP armor.


Easy solution that gaijin will never approve:

  1. Nerf cantsir rockets to 12km radius as well as radar
  2. Remove volumetric shells to completely get rid of ghost shells and ridiculous no pen moments
  3. Remove spall liners from the game. No tank is able to take multiple APFSDS hits and still fight back. That’t unrealistic and unfair in terms of balance. Imagine hitting leopard or T90 crew with APFSDS and then get oneshot in return, how is that even fair?
  4. Buff kinetic damage so we can actually oneshot and get oneshoted instead of killing drivers and commanders
  5. Rebalance CAS so ppl can’t capture point with SPAA, jump out and spawn fully equipped plane. CAS should be a reward in GRB and not something you can spawn in without doing anything useful.
    *3 kills to spawn a plane and 2 kills to spawn heli.
    *3 flying vehicle for each team restriction. That means 6 planes/helis available for one battle in total. So no more revenge bombing and CAS spam, sounds good right?
  6. Don’t change maps without receiving actual feedback. Let us to dev server so we can test new changes out.

That’s what I do, however any player should be able to play top tier in the best conditions after having to play hundreds of hours to play top tier. If we listen to your logic we should stop eating when prices go up, which is insane, so no you’re not right at all.

I did not talk about UK tech tree but you’re absolutely right they have many vehicles that could be great to add ! However I find it cool that UK got newer variants of the challenger 2 to freshen up their TT.

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Just bc many players play like dumbasses in russian vehicles, go look at the statcards of the players, they either often do shit as there is so much lvl 14 premium T-72AV buyers who ruin the stats of the russian top tier, or players tend to rely wayyy too much on russian bias and do things that are absolutely insane, thus reducing their statistics again.
Consequently, and as Gaijin gives buffs when players have globally bad statistics, it gives them 10000 reasons to buff again and again russian tech tree…


For the same reason why we haven’t got the Eurofighter, it is simply a far better aircraft. Gripen is already the most dominant dogfighter at top tier (MiG-29s for example have to work really hard to win against one, now imagine adding a jet that’s even better at dogfighting, but also packs a better radar and missiles).

Rafale alone would require a completely new tier, and would pretty much sit alone there, and fight against itself.


Who told you that ? 3 TO 5 seconds apparently. A USMC veteran on the M1A1 Abrams tank: “This tank was designed for assault!” - News - War Thunder

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So players controlling non-Russian vehicles don’t play like dumbasses ?
Other nation’s premiums are also being played by lvl 14 users, your point ?
How can people “do shit” in something that’s brokenly OP and is blessed by bias ?

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Stick to 1 - 6 Rank. 7 and 8 are beta tests pretty much.

In principle, the damage of practically all the bullets should be changed, but in the case of the top tier what should be modified is the damage of the HEAT-FS, in any Br they have inconsistent and absurd damage, the same thing you kill with one shot that pierces the same and the damage dissipates after killing a single crew member, but the problem is that in top tier the damage is simply absurd, from the front it is clear that they do no damage due to the enemy’s armor, but from the side they should do consistent damage, however almost always they either do minimal damage or simply do not do any damage, which is absurd, since many side tanks have very little armor, and only the spall shield would be what would stop some of the damage, but in the game they literally do no harm. The funny thing is that you test them in the test drive and you kill the top tier testers with a single shot from the side or in any case you kill more than one crew member by hitting a good spot, it’s like If the damage from the test drive would be what it should be, and in games a junk version of the damage model.

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There are multiple videos of Abrams’ loaders reloading in 3-4 seconds, it is well within the bounds of reality. Unbalanced? Idk. I think every Abrams player would rather have its actual IRL armor than the IRL reload, though.


Naturally, I want both.

However, priority list is important and right now the Abrams need survivability improvements over a reload speed increase.

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I do agree that the Later models are better than the JAS 39C, but you can’t really say that the Eurofighter had better missiles than the Gripen because THEY LITERALLY HAVE THE SAME MISSILES, but Also they gave the 39C to the UK but made it an A with aim9m, that isn’t really a C model, I think they will add the Eurofighter (which entered service in what, 2004?) And the Rafale (and the 39C to Sweden) in the next update

The point is EFT could literally not use anything below AMRAAM level, Gripen technically can, which is why it’s here, and why the EFT and Rafale aren’t. EFT’s radar is also significantly superior (larger and newer therefore), adding to that it being a better or at least equal dogfighter.

When playing Ground realistic Battles at top tier the mantra is:

Always the one-shot, never the one-shooter.

It really doesn’t matters what you bring to battle, if it’s not an SPAA targetting air from proper cover, chances are that either you’ll die before shooting or will be dead before any follow up shot.

This is why I also have actually funnier to play WW2 era-ish line-ups. No problems with classified stats, no problems with “intended for hull down doctrine with a gigaton of intel”, no problem with thermal vision, no problem with AA missiles… just steer away from poorly-BR tanks and have some actual fun each now and then.