Top Tier AIR RB battles are in great need of adding a "Heavy Fighter Percentage Limit"

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
1

In this major update, we have started the era of “active radar air-to-air missiles”, which is very cool and we have all been looking forward to it for a long time, but based on the current situation, there will be serious problems ------ balance crisis in AIR battles after the official server update

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As shown in the figure ↑ , taking the F-15C as an example, it can now carry up to 8 AMRAAM, which is crushing compared to other light/medium fighters, and the F-15C can use strong power to grab altitude, get fast speed, and achieve a big advantage in BVR, which is obvious.

Even with two close-range combat missiles, it is possible to have six rounds of AMRAAM, which is generally standard. ↓

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At the same time, the SU-27SM can also use different ratios of R-27ER / R77 to achieve better BVR performance, and can also choose the R-27ET according to the player’s own gameplay, in addition to an additional 4 rounds of R73, a total of 10 missiles, which is quite scary. ↓

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At the same time, light fighters have difficulty gaining the initiative in battle due to their weak engine power and weak energy characteristics. The JAS-39C is a prime example, although it is agile in maneuvering, but the thrust of the engine does not allow it to reach high altitudes as quickly as a heavy fighter, and it will be easily suppressed. ↓

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The Mirage 2000-5 faced the same difficulties, and the delta wing shape also made it easier to waste energy and speed during maneuvers, which can be very lethal in BVR and everyday air combat.↓

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As things stand, it is clear that in the AIR RB battle, a heavy fighter will achieve a high advantage, which will put the light / medium fighter in a difficult position. In this case, the player will also choose more of the “optimal solution”, which will make the proportion of aircraft models unbalanced.

Therefore, I highly recommend that in the new version, the number/proportion of heavy fighters should be added, for example, in a 12VS12 battle, only 4 ~ 5 heavy fighters are allowed per faction. This should make the combat relatively more balanced and allow for a variety of aircraft types. ：）

3 Likes
3

No, stop trying to rebalance some aircraft by taking away advantages of other aircraft. Yes the F-15C has more Aim-120s, but it isn’t as manuverable as the lighter airframes making it harder to dogfight AND avoid missiles by bleeding them of energy with turns. The heavy fighters are missile trucks. Let them stay missile trucks.

Also, stop trying to make matchmaking times worse for a certain plane types. Noone seemed to complain that the Gripen shpuld be limited to 4 per match when it was dumping flares constantly, outmanuvering everything, and flinging aim9ms all over the place while being almost unkillable. It’ll be fine.

4 Likes
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But in fact, the F-15’s handling performance is very good, thanks to its better aerodynamic shape and huge thrust, its combat performance is better than that of a medium aircraft like the MiG29, and at the same time, a body like the Mirage cannot keep up with the energy tactics of the Eagle. In all fairness, I’m afraid I can’t beat my F-15 with my F-16. As for “dealing with aircraft like JAS39”, it is only necessary to maintain a high speed, and there is no way for the Gripen to take the Eagle at all, the core of modern air combat is energy, and the light body will never be able to move the initiative.

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More energy, more speed, more missiles, it’s totally crushing

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quantity is not synonymous with quality, I would 100 times prefer to take my Mirage 2000 than an F-15 at this Br

7

In the current official server, the current version, there are many people who try to use light fighters and F-15 to compete in energy combat, and in the end they all fail, its energy is too abundant, and the maneuverability is not as “stiff” as expected, but has good steering performance, which makes the F-15 deceptive on the surface.

1 Like
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It’s true that 50g missiles with TVC in close combat are not effective, I had forgotten.

Reducing the number of “heavy planes” as you say is not a solution, each plane has its advantages and disadvantages, the Mirage perhaps loses more energy but its missiles are far superior, the Grippen is limited by its carry and its flight model but it also has a sufficient number of countermeasures to Chaff the radars throughout the game, the Su-27 has more missiles than other planes but its radar is much worse…

9

MICA is of course very powerful, but in fact, when I was piloting the mirage, I was often locked by the opponent’s high-altitude fighter jets, because my missile range was not enough, in order to save my life, I needed to reduce the altitude as soon as possible and evade, which would make me lose a lot of energy, sometimes I had to face the first attack of multiple missiles, and when I was done with all this, I had lost altitude and speed, which made it difficult for me to regain the initiative. The high-altitude SU27/F-15 has a lot of space and the ability to strike, and I will be completely passive at this time. After the new version, you will have to abandon your position to evade missiles in the face of high-altitude and high-speed AMRAAM, and at the same time your MICA will not have enough range to threaten the F-15 in the distance, which can be very deadly, if the opponent is a stubborn player who refuses to approach you all the time, but instead maintains his high speed.

1 Like
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It’s true that the SU27’s radar is bad, but its speed and power are still very powerful, and I personally feel that it will be difficult to compete with the number of them

11

So since the planes are in both teams each time it poses no problem, because suddenly you have F-15s and Su-27s engaging at high altitude on each side?

The planes do not have the same performance and that is normal, I do not see why we should limit their number.

Welcome to the game, all the games happen like this and already happened like this before and for every planes,

I even find that the Su-27s are less threatening than before because their missiles go slower

In addition (surprise approaching) which will be the two most played aircraft after the next update: the F-15C and the new Su-27. Your suggestion would only create additional waiting time for the majority of players

And if we start to limit the vehicles that players can take, why not do it to all Br, limit the F-4Cs because they have more missiles? Limit attackers to the ground because they have better short-range missiles? Limit bombers because they can end a game quickly? Limit tank destroyers because they destroy other vehicles too easily? Or heavy tanks because they are too armored? Or light tanks because they go too fast? …

12

So should we also limit energy fighters at prop BRs because they can outfight pure turn fighters and boom and zoom aircraft?

The Gripen, Mirage, and F-16 will outmanuver the F-15. It may be able to retain energy better and accelerate faster, but it won’t outturn those lighter airframes which is the advantage of those lighter airframes. Yes, they will bleed speed faster because of the better turn rate, but that is the tradeoff that comes with that advantage.

On a similar note, why is the F-15C carrying 8 missiles a huge problem when the F-16 can carry 6 and has a more manuverable airframe for dodging incoming missiles?

This is a classic case of “I don’t like this, limit it for me so I don’t have to deal with it”.

1 Like
13

The one argument used by too many folk to utterly destroy so many machines. The “limit” usually being some form of boneheaded reactionary nerf in response to a whine explosion.

The correct solution is to buff any available counter where possible, then explicitly tell people said counter has been enhanced, tell them to stop complaining and go use said counter, and that any further complaining of the machine being “overpowered” will be hereby ignored.

14

I would agree if there was a problem here. The F-15C is by no means going to be some sort of invincible destroyer of worlds because it has 2 more missiles compared to the F-16C and other 13.0s. Yes, AMRAAMs are going to be powerful additions and having a max of 8 will allow more kill potential, but the disadvantages of the heavy airframe will be present in trying to bleed the enemy missiles of energy and dodging them. Also, anyone that takes 8 is probably going to have a terrible time overall if they do end up anywhere near another plane they could end up defenseless.

Honestly I see the F-15C carrying 8 AMRAAMs the exact same as the Russian planes that carry 4 R28ERs already in comparison to AIM7F/Ms, a (deserved) advantage in an area where it can be given because of differences in each airframe and capability. Gives people a reason to play different nations for those advantages. Otherwise gameplay for every aircraft will be so bland that nothing will be fun.