A.I. contribution to ticket bleed should be removed in Air RB for matches at tiers 6, 7 and 8. Ticket bleed at these tiers should only occur from player actions.
This mechanic was created for the lower tiers to prevent unnecessarily long matches due to bombers space climbing. This is not an issue at tiers 6 and higher.
This auto ticket bleed ends matches prematurely at the most interesting times. Just when you finally get down to a 3 vs 3, 2 vs 2, or 1 vs 1, the match ends… and this happens frequently.
Furthermore, I’ve been seeing a lot of abuse of this mechanic lately. Squads will do the following:
1. Spawn in with a supersonic attack aircraft.
2. Bomb a base.
3. Hit a couple of AI ground targets or AI air targets.
4. Run to opposite corners of the map.
This gives that squad’s team an initial ticket advantage and if their team is wiped out, the enemy has to search for them. Inevitably somebody will activate a Blind Hunt, and the majority of the hunting team will head to the corner of the detected enemy. After that enemy is killed, they are all now super far from the other squad mate and this allows enough time at the upper tiers to end the match in favor of the abusive bombing squad…
It also just allows the remaining player up on tickets to just camp their AF AAA and allow AI to do the work for them.
AI ticket bleed is a terrible mechanic at the upper tiers and promotes the worst type of gameplay.
If Gaijin wants to allow for more passive gameplay, please separate this out from normal Air RB. Maybe that would be a PVE mode or an Air RB EC mode but this type of gameplay should not be promoted and rewarded over PVP gameplay in standard Air RB.
Im not against having minor PVE elements in the game but the ticket bleed is beyond excessive at the upper tiers.
Air RB is predominantly a PVP mode. Warthunder is predominantly a PVP game. Id love to see a separate mode focused on PVE for planes but not at the expense of the PVP.
Well, for now its very much facilitating both. So regardless you will have to deal with the fact there are more ways to win than team whipe.
And at high tiers its very easy to affect ai ticket bleed as basically everything has the armament to kill most targets. Even in an air-to-air loadout.
I think the fact there are multiple avanues to victory specifically prevent camping and passive behavior as you can force a victory regardless of there being a person at 15km doing nothing. Plenty of times ive forced a win by doing so. You are doing it wrong if you and your entire team is chasing a blind-hunt target far away
My issue with it isn’t necessarily the winning or losing part.
Its just that the matches end farrr too early. I can barely get a match over 7 minutes… i just want to play out the ending 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3.
Most of the time, the attackers that caused the ticket bleed are dead and have left the match altogether and its all PVP players that are gearing up to fight and then the match just ends… its a waste…
If match outcome was determined by some sort of “judges scorecard” like:
1 point for a ticket advantage
1 point for a kill advantage
1 point for objective advantage
…2/3 points wins,
Id have no problem with that.
My issue is just that the remaining PVP players continuously get robbed of a good fight. I think it happens in like 75% of my matches and even when my team wins on tickets, im leaving the battle pissed off.
Not to mention it can easily be abused. From the squad hack i mentioned before to other abuses.
I can almost guarantee my team wins by hitting all the yak 38s and running back to my base, hiding behind AAA.
It’s a mechanic that is favoring the PVE over the PVP… and for Air RB thats not right. The mode is supposed to be PVP focused.
Im all for a PVE mode of some sort. Air RB EC or Air RB PVE would be awesome!
Just don’t rob PVP players of a good ending… even if the ticket loss causes me to lose just let me fight…
I really dont care much about the winning or losing part so long as i can actually play out the ending rather than just be hastily shuffled into another 16 vs 16 mindless furball.
Yeah i think there is an argument to be made that the ticket bleed goes too quickly.
As far as favoring PVE over PVP? Honestly it just means PVE has more game impact than it has previously. Most matches are allready decided by PVP. And what it does mean is that as a PVP player you also have some responsibility of taking out AI attackers
I would like to see any official source confirming your claim regarding the reasons behind the introduction of ticket bleed. Thanks in advance!
Although i am with you in general - the described issue is the same in lower tiers.
I do not agree that this mechanic favors PvE - from a holistic pov it simply adds another tactical dimension to your PvP game play as you have to consider the cost benefit ratio whilst chasing a player - so is it wise to start a long chase for an enemy whilst some ai planes kills your tickets or not.
Your example with fighting squads is imho not suited to strengthen your point as you are as a solo player usually always in a disadvantageous position, so the applied tactics are secondary issues.
Imho the map design plays a major role in this issue.
Whilst on some maps you can at least stop the ticket bleed by killing ai planes - other maps show exact your described scenario - you are within a dogfight and somehow there is a sharp ticket drop for one side and the game ends - but both sides have previously killed all ai planes so this implemented auto ticked bleed causes the trouble and not the “standard” ticket bleed.
So your whole issue boils down to 2 questions:
A) Are your match results based on wrong tactical decisions of one side?
or
B) Is the implemented “auto-ticket bleed” on some maps a result of faulty map design?
Plenty of times you have multiple people left on both sides, and tickets just drop to 0 in a minute or two, that is not good game design and has absolutely nothing to do with “just play the objective bro”
A) i mean for the map im on then yes. If i lost then wrong decisions were made. But again, its ending these matches far too early. Im not arguing that its not currently a part of the game mode. Obviously it is.
B) i mean the map layout is a separate issue but the map ticket bleed on some maps is certainly broken. City is a good example of a map where the ticket bleed is cracked.
This goes back years. I believe it was around 2016-2017 when people were asking about longer modes after the trial of Air RB EC. It would take me a while to comb through and find it.
Again i understand it’s part of the game mode at the moment. I just don’t think the AI ticket bleed contributes anything to the upper tiers. Im fine with player ticket bleed. If an enemy is camping their af and they’re up on tickets then your team should have options to motivate that player to leave their af.
Right now AI ticket bleed just kind of encourages airfield camping.
Again, imho it ends the match far too early and at the most interesting times. The team deathmatch or timer should still be allowed to play out, even if the final ticket count contributes to the win/loss. I just hate being robbed of the most interesting moments because of what some already dead and gone PVE player did.
You’re not really addressing the point. You’re just saying “well its a part of the game mode so you gotta do it”.
Nobody is arguing that AI ticket bleed isn’t currently apart of the game mode. We’re arguing that it makes the game mode worse… at least for the upper tiers.
-its abused by squads.
-it encourages extremely passive gameplay in favor of PVP gameplay
-it encourages airfield camping
-it dramatically shortens matches
-it ruins the final PVP encounters, which are the most exciting.
Again, nobody is arguing that AI ticket bleed isn’t currently apart of the game mode. We all know it is.
Yes, its part of the game mode, and the complaints about ticket bleed ending games is solved by people engaging with the mechanic
Honestly does the exact opposite. It can force engagements and force wins if the enemy refuses to engage. Avoiding airfield camp situations.
I still get these. Mostly because i engage with the mechanic. If you want to prolong matches, kill the AI planes causing ticket bleed.
Idk what issue is with squads coordinating around a win condition. If you think they are being passive, then you have the tools at your disposal to force an engagement. That being killing AI targets.
Idk what this is responding to. The other person advocated for the removal of ticket bleed and i distinguished between removing it and making it slower.
This is just redundant. Nobody is arguing with you here. You can keep saying “well just engage with the mechanic bro” but we are arguing against the mechanic. My response to this is:
-yea, no shit lol.
This is not at all how ive seen the mechanic used…
PVE and passive players tend to play passively… they’re usually not interested in engaging in PVP and either run away or airfield camp, or die very early on and leave. Almost every single time the other team has a major ticket advantage, even if i slow down the AI ticket bleed by killing AI aircraft, the opposite team is completely avoiding the PVP and either waiting for their AI ticket bleed to finish the match or running out the clock.
And yes i understand this is a mechanic in the game. Im arguing that it shouldn’t be…
Congratulations…im not saying i NEVER get these but they are farrr less prevalent because of the AI ticket bleed.
Again, as i said before, the mechanic is creating an almost guaranteed win condition if the squad coordinates properly on killing AI targets and avoiding PVP altogether. And yes this probably could be solved by slowing down the ticket bleed or increasing gross tickets on some maps.
In a mode like Air RB, this mechanic just feels completely out of place. No other RB mode in War Thunder has a game-ending mechanic that allows players to completely avoid the PVP.
I could understand this mechanic if it didn’t end the match and just provided a certain amount of RP and SL for the team that successfully bleeds the enemy of tickets. But Air RB matches at the upper tiers are already hyper-short. We don’t need something to make them even shorter and to rob PVP players of a proper game ending fight.
Something needs to be done about this mechanic because the way it works now at the upper tiers of Air RB is Broken.
Idk if you got my point correct - maybe a translation issue or i was not clear enough:
There is nothing wrong with ai killing other ai if players are able to influence this ticket drain by attacking the right targets at the right time and the ticket bleed is somehow “linear” and controllable.
I support the OP for those cases when the ticket bleed is artificially triggered by game /map functions which happened in a non-linear fashion. So for those cases you done everything to stop the regular ticket bleed and out of nowhere tickets go to 0 without any comprehensible reason.
So again - is the ticket bleed controllable / predictable or not.
Imho you should rethink your position regarding “auto ticket bleed”. As there is no definition, different people have different understandings. From my pov “auto ticket bleed” describes situations within the match when:
a) tickets on both sides are going down simultaneously in oder to shorten the match duration or
b) on some upgraded / revised maps certain (and unknown) trigger points were reached which results in very sharp ticket drops in very short time spans.
So if the OP has issues with too short match durations and he can’t extend the match duration even if he is aware of ways to stop it, the only logical conclusion is that:
The linear ticket drop by ai fighting ai is too fast or
The “auto ticked bleed” function on some maps is flawed
Whilst #1 could be solved with decreasing the effectiveness of ai planes the solution for #2 requires bug reports for those maps. Having rather disappointing experiences with bug reports regarding design flaws on certain maps i wish everybody good luck trying this…