Basically, from what i understand right now. The snail uses every user to determine a vehicles br.
While a decent system, There are situations where a majority of players that don’t know how to play a vehicle will get it lowered in br while vehicles played by good/great players have a higher br. (Look at copy/paste vehicles)
Would you guys like to see this changed/Altered? Have only a select portion of players effect the br? Stay the same?
Here’s a few examples:
Only top 70% can influence the br
Only the 50% - 80% can influence the br
Only 20% - 40% and 60% - 80% can influence the br
(Would make a poll but there’s a bit to many answers, put your likes on the comments that you think are good)
Here’s a simple graph cause why not.
It’s kinda hard to determine which players to use to determine the Br of vehicles. Any good player can make bad vehicles look good. But also bad players can make a good vehicle look bad regardless how much they play. There are many level 100 players too that play horribly like new players.
I’m going to go with this. Can’t use the top players to determine Br or the below 50%.
Then again, player’s performance vary as well. Some days they serious, some days they troll around, some days just a bad day, some days they do well without effort, some days they don’t care and rush. Then we got the rush grinders (which is what im doing now) that will sometimes play horribly just to get fast RP and move to the next match. It’s really difficult to collect accurate data…so its why they use all players. The 50% to 80% can probably be better, but i don’t know.
And takes the plain average from their results. In addition BRs are used to push sales of certain premium vehicles and are (together with the MM) a tool to steer WRs on nation level.
As the current BR system has its limits and is adjusted way too seldom (and based on the imho wrong parameters = plain average) parameters, gaijin feels the need to “adjust” certain vehicles with open or hidden nerfs & buffs.
Prime examples from Air RB:
US & USSR P-39s at 2.7 and 3.0 - undertiered
IT Re 2005 at 6.0 - overtiered
The problem is that at some BRs the raw technical performance gap is way too large to be closed with player skill - at this point playing the game becomes a pain. Most prominent example: Try to win a 1 vs 1 agaimst a BR 6.7 BI…
If you look at the overall content within this forum you might agree that a large portion deals with BR assessments by gaijin.
Whilst players strive for actually fair BR settings in order to allow fair fights, it is imho obvious that gaijin strives like basically all other MMOs for the Holy Grail of Devs: Perfect balance if the average user has 50% WR in it.
A change of the BR setting process would have severe impacts on player progress, premium sales and the in-game economy. Therefore a change of the BR setting policy would require a general overhaul of game play, player progress and the in-game economy as all of them (together with the MM) work together.
Example:
If you want to assess the “real” combat capabilities of a random vehicle you need to assess the 5-10% top performers within all players playing the same vehicle - anything else makes no sense.
A major side effect: There would be no undertiered vehicles left.
But it means also that long-term players could not longer benefit from maximizing their results with the combination of experience and using an op / undertiered vehicle at the same time - whilst rookies would have no chance to accelerate their progress by researching or buying an op vehicle.
So as long as the majority of the players (vets & rookies) see the purpose of playing as to grind the next vehicle, earn SL for another mode or a new TT any relevant changes should also consider the increase of difficulty whilst playing as actually “fair” BRs would reduce income for them.
That means that an increase of SL/RP income is essential - otherwise any changes of the BR setting process won’t be acceptable for most of the players.
This would yet again be flawed as you have no idea how skilled those 5-10% top performers really are.
Their skill levels would change from vehicle to vehicle as you can’t control who plays what vehicles.
Vehicle A might be used to only 90% of it’s maximum performance, even by top 5-10% players playing it.
Vehicle B might be used to only 70% of it’s maximum performance, even by top 5-10% players playing it.
Vehicle C might be used to only 50% of it’s maximum performance, even by top 5-10% players playing it.
This might end up with vehicle C dropping down in BR all the while it has the same maximum capabilities as vehicle A, but obviously it’s players couldn’t really keep up so you have the same old thing, player skill (or lack thereof) affecting the BR of vehicles. Regardless if you take all data or just top 5-10%, you can’t escape this.
The point is, you’ll never know for sure what’s happening so just handwaving it to top 5-10% players is utterly wrong and wouldn’t make a difference from the current system.
After various exchanges it looks like that you fail constantly to understand that the 5-10% refer only to players of a certain vehicle. That the 5-10% of the top performers in vehicle A might be totally different from the 5-10% top players of vehicle B is obvious.
And as a final remark regarding skill: It doesn’t matter how you get results - just the results count. So any discussions regarding player skill are pointless as skill in itself is hard to quantify and player skill is already shown in the results.
Statshark and Gaijin are entirely different systems.
You cannot get the data that Gaijin uses for balancing from Statshark with any automated means.
Not sure why you’re citing Statshark when it proves all my posts correct.
Gaijin does not use aggregate blind data and hasn’t since the CL13 incident, which is why CL13 has never been repeated.
Which is why I’ve said that system is flawed, as you’re here to balance vehicles A and B.
A vehicle has to be compared to it’s peers in order to see where it really belongs.
It definitely does matter how you get the results as that will directly impact the balancing.
I already shown this to you in another thread.
That is under assumption that the entirety of the forum is unbiased, fact-driven community.
Just looking at the case of 2S38 proves this assumption to be wrong.
Not a single balancing system is enough to defeat the BR compression, where the amount of BR steps is too low to properly fit in hundreds of vehicles at the same time.
Those two steps are very much connected. You first have to put a vehicle somewhere in order to gauge it’s performance to it’s same BR’d peers and then make changes based on that.
Yeah it should in a perfect world, but WT forum can get absolutely wild when talking about certain topics, so bias and subjective opinions are a big part of this community.
I argue that problems with balancing lies in the fact we don’t have enough BR steps, not because our balancing system that relies on average stats is bad.
Gaijin could add more BR steps and thus solve many balancing issues, but they won’t for reasons they don’t want to disclose.
