Top tier ARH SPAA are pretty miserable, being easy to notch and prone to multipathing, making their SACLOS predecessors (and now the new Pantsir) much stronger… Would you support the reduction of the Multipath height for top-tier SAM missiles to their real life numbers? (~1-10 meters)
I really do want to agree with this, but I think it would be worse for the health of the game. Some missiles can already be hard to multipath due to proxy radius, and multipathing isn’t 100% reliable either in general.
This would make multipathing completely unreliable so you wouldn’t have to risk the rng with multipath and it would make all SAM ARH missiles equal so the BUK isn’t the only one that’s immune to multipathing because of its massive warhead
I love people pretending like multipath is something gajin invented not the biggest problem in communications technology
You realize that modern monopulse seekers are mostly immune to it right? (1 to 10 meters is the most common range for these modern ARH seekers)
From Community Bug Reporting System
“the RIM-7M (surface launched designation for the AIM-7M, no modifications done to the missile itself besides the folding fins use) has a minimum intercept altitude of 16ft or 5m”
Yes, but keep in mind things like client desync. Just because you’re at a certain altitude on your screen doesn’t mean its 100% the same for others. Its why when you watch your friend hit a tree, on your screen they cleared it but they hit it center mass. If this game was entirely perfectly sure.
It might be harder to implement something like this strictly due to network related reasons.
Aster 15-20ft
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/a1b8GDSUiwJ9
CAMM 0
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/X7O8vjycl0DZ
Did you consider maps with no notable terrain features, like Arctic Circle? If you take away multipathing, it means that if you can’t notch, you’re just dead regardless.
And how is that a bad thing exactly?
I would rather they focus on making helicopters not have magical bubble force fields around them first.
According to your proposal, aircraft have exactly 2 means of avoiding missiles: Multipathing and Notching. You want to outright remove one of those methods for the sake of getting more kills, disregarding the fact that the missile seekers, as you mentioned, could be reworked to resist multipathing rather than getting rid of it entirely.
i dont think a 5 meter multipath height will make any difference to a 0m multipath height
Interestingly, the new Pantsir gets a new mechanism added without any necessary bug reports. But if other countries’ want this same mechanism, it must have a bug report submitted.
MP in both an air setting and a ground setting needs an overhaul. Its time to get rid of the generallised 60m height that is totally ahistorical and set to best available sources for each missile. Minimum engagement altitude if specific MP height is unknown. Its dumb mechanic no matter what context.
But yeah, in a SAM context, where it is impossible to mitigate it by firing top-down, it should never have been a thing.
Perticularly ontop of the fact that Helis are so hard to engage with Radar based weapon as it is
Which within the context of ARH SAMs, is 50% due to MP.
Having a missile launched from a stationary platform from a specific area of the map being just as prone to multipath as a missile launched from an f15e going mach 2 at 10km altitude from anywhere on the map is just dumb
Also I love how people scream about how OP cas is yet when they are presented with an opportunity to nerf it, they go against it
Yeah it is, especially when most SAMs iirc, are less affected by MP than air launched missiles. I think CAMM was test fired at a naval target or something
I’d say yes but I will stay on a “maybe” until we see the effects of such a major change on gameplay. Overall though I would say that sth like this is needed for future balancing in regards to more advanced weapons, gen 5 aviation, ARM missiles and ECM.
In the more recent patches we have already seen an increased emphasis being placed upon intercepting enemy A-G munitions while destroying the enemy aircraft itself has become somewhat of a secondary objective. SAMs which perform well in this regard need to have a lot of interceptors and maybe even a pair of guns like we have seen on the “old” Pantsir S1 and the soon to be Pantsir SM SV. Sadly though many nations simply do not have the luxury of these types of system. Aside from the IRIS-T and maybe the SAMP/T most simply can not effectively kill enemy aircaft and need to - as said before - make shooting down munitions their primary objective and on a 1:1 basis this will quickly expend all their available ammo.
New systems like the S400 and Patriot PAC-3 are not wonder weapons and won’t suddenly fix this situation. In order to bring these systems up to standard their lethality has to be increased. And probably the easiest way is to improve their resistance to multipathing on a case to case basis.
In 3rd person, a higher multipath height is required due to perspective shifting making 60 meters more dangerous than first person 40 meters.
A multipathing jet is also one not currently engaging your team, and stalling CAS operations seems to be how things are shifting.
Oh please tell someone in telecommunication industry, i think this work is worth a nobel prize lmao
And i’ve been sent this report time and time again, of at best tertiary source which you can see is more of an encyclopedia and even directly says RIM-7M is based on AIM-7E (contrary tto the report)
And then if you look at the source? JANES!
- Richardson, D., NAval Armament, Jane’s, New York, 1982.-
And yes you can probably do 5m in calm sea with radar at 0m looking up with the missile using proximity fuse to work. Not in like any situation in warthunder.
Tho i do wish look up from 0 ->50m would work better
