This is just too much immorality. Tiger II (H), Panther F and G in a GROUND SİMULATOR BATTLE

Well, folks, as you are aware, there are significant imbalances in the battles taking place within this tier range.

The Allied side has access to 1950s-era French medium tanks—featuring 4-second reload times, rapid aiming, and highly effective ammunition—as well as reasonably balanced T-44-100 variants, British medium tanks equipped with 1948-pattern ammunition capable of 381mm of penetration, and a selection of fairly well-balanced American medium tanks.

In the heavy tank category, they field vehicles like the IS-2 M4 (late model), the Super Pershing series, and the Caernarvon—all of which boast excellent armor and highly capable ammunition. Some of these models even enjoy the advantage of an incredibly fast reload rate.

As for tank destroyers, they have access to units like the British Tortoise and the T28.

Now, let’s look at the German tech tree:

While they do have the Tiger II (H) and certain tank destroyer models that can, to some extent, hold their own against this opposition…

…the German tech tree completely lacks medium tanks.

On the Allies’ side, there are vehicles from 1950 and later—machines that are much more agile and equipped with superior ammunition—whereas the German tech tree is limited to the F and G series.

Even though the Allies have counterparts to the German vehicles, they have also been given machines with significantly better performance for this specific combat tier.

The Axis side, meanwhile, is stuck playing with heavy, sluggish vehicles based on WWII-era design concepts.

Before we can even reach the first objective, the enemy’s fast vehicles have already seized key positions, picking us off like sitting ducks.

The root of the problem is that we are forced to face post-WWII vehicles—designed with 1950s-era concepts—while using equipment designed for WWII. We are essentially being slaughtered.

Why, when there are clear WWII-era counterparts to the Tiger II, Panther F/G, and various tank destroyers, are we stubbornly forced to contend with much higher-performing vehicles produced after 1950?

Are we supposed to be here just to feed your egos?

In the past, attempts were made to balance this by introducing vehicles like the Panther II, the 10.5cm Tiger, and similar models—none of which are currently present in the tech tree.

But later on, these vehicles were removed from the tech tree using nonsensical excuses.

And if these vehicles are classified as “paper vehicles” (theoretical/blueprint-only designs), why do you add others—like those from the “Stalingrad” or “Sevastopol” series—to the tech tree?

Why the hypocrisy and the double standards?

Essentially, there are two ways to resolve this:

  1. Bring back the removed vehicles.
  2. Reorganize the simulation battle mode by introducing a new combat tier that includes the aforementioned French AMX models, the T-44-100, the Centurion, the Caernarvon, and their variants.

One of these steps must be taken. I’m sorry, but I refuse to continue playing in a Tiger II (H) against 1950s-era vehicles, effectively serving as “free kills” for other players.

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Those weren’t completely paper vehicles, they were partially built but cancelled, and Naval has different rules regarding how incompletely constructed vehicles are added

Both the Panther II and Tiger II 105 as portrayed in-game are not “paper”, they’re a fictional hodgepodge of multiple designs.

Because they aren’t just made up, they were begun physically and never finished.

Axis side has Type 61. If include all of the allies together, it makes no sense to then single out Germany as if they are supposed to be a better tree than every allied nation combined. Italy has its own Pershing and plently of light vehicles to take objectives with.

Why put “air” in the title then start complaining about ground vehicles? Also why complain about stronger vehicles than the Tiger 2 and at a higher BR? The Tiger 2 is 6.7, so comparing it to 7.0s like the T-44-100 and AMX-M4 isn’t actually fair. Compare the Tiger to other 6.7s or don’t compare it at all

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If there’s an issue with paper vehicles,

then perhaps the Stalingrad, Sevastopol, and various other paper vehicles shouldn’t be added to the game either?

Do you even realize what you’re saying?

Are you not reading what I’ve written?

Are we obligated to respond to your nonsensical posts just for the sake of saying something?

Facing a Tiger II (H), there are vehicles like the Super Pershing, IS-2M, and Caernarvon (the 1948 model with 381mm penetration ammo). Just like the Tiger II, these vehicles can be penetrated at specific weak points—in fact, the Tiger II has angles that make it even easier to penetrate than some of these. The IS-2 is also quite solid, provided its lower glacis isn’t exposed.

We’re talking about an issue regarding medium-tier tanks, and this guy starts going on about the Tiger II (H). Simulation battles are completely different—they’re nothing like Realistic or Arcade modes.

I wrote “SIMULATION BATTLES” in big, bold letters; are you incapable of reading, or have you never even participated in a simulation battle?

We’re left at the mercy of 14-15-year-old kids and developers of the same age. People are out here discussing adding a “Ukrainian tech tree” to the game.

Well, I want an “Iraqi tech tree.”

This game started to take a strange turn ever since they began adding post-WWII vehicles.

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I wish there was a WW2 only game mode so bad. I miss back in the day before the cold war nonsense when the Maus and IS-4 were top dogs. Paper vehicles imo are less of an issue than the WW2 vs cold war problem. I would rather be killed by a P.43, O-I, or VK1602 than a 1960s HEAT slinger, or 1980s IFV.

People will hate me for it, but when I’m playing US or German 6.7, I just leave the game if it’s 7.3 or above. There are enough BS HEAT slingers at 6.7, no point in enraging myself by playing against more of them.

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Okay… take “air” out of the title if your ranting about tanks

I wrote it this way to make the point easier to understand.

I am referring to the battles that include vehicles with a Battle Rating (BR) range of 5.0–6.3—the tier where the Tiger II (H) is found.

By the way, take a look at the vehicles in the tech tree; you’ll see what I mean.

what does this have to do with aircrafts?

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are you not reading what was written? he said you shouldn’t compare lower battle rating vehicles with higher battle rating vehicles as that isn’t a fair comparison. you then go ahead and compare the caenarvon at 7.7 with the tiger 2. it is a whole 1.0 battle rating higher, of course it’s better. if you can’t destroy a caernarvon with the tiger 2, that’s a skill issue. the tiger 2 is completely capable at destroying every tank around it’s battle rating if you play it well. seriously, give your head a wobble.

For that matter, you could even take out a Tiger II by hitting its side profile with a T-34-76.

The problem is that, despite being supposedly equivalent vehicles, the tanks facing the German tech tree are consistently superior.

Go into the simulation battle I’m referring to, play as a Panther F or G, and then come back here and share your thoughts.

There are bigger issues than the Tiger II (H).

Pr69 Kronshtadt class - Kronshtadt and Sevastopol were laid down.

Pr82 Stalingrad class lead ship Stalingrad was actually launched with Pr82 Kronshtadt and Moskva being scrapped.

The resulting hull for Stalingrad was used for weapons testing.

Naval follows different rules and your cherry picking of two RU ships when [Germany] has the most unfinished ships in its tree shows you’re trying to grasp at straws with no actual idea what you’re talking about.

But by all means, write several paragraphs with passive aggressive and underhanded remarks about how I’m biased against Germany in warthunder and wrong while also flagging me because I hit the nail on the head.

There’s a double standard. It’s as simple as that.

They are clearly making adjustments just to take revenge on the German and Japanese tech trees.

Tell me, is the Panther F actually a better vehicle than the AMX-50 (TOA 100/TO 90)? And that’s not even counting the other variants—or how it compares to the T-44-100, the Centurion Mk 3, and their derivatives.


really. This just makes it harder to understand

What?
image

Also compare the Tiger II only to vehicles at 6.7.

reloads slower

reloads slower, worse armor

7.7 in BR – a whole 1.0 in difference! Of course it’s better lmao

off-topic

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It has a faster loading rate and uses 381mm ammunition—why aren’t you mentioning these things?

It has a faster loading rate and uses 381mm ammunition—why aren’t you mentioning these things?

Could you list the equivalent medium tanks that would face the Panther F—assuming you have even a shred of integrity?

How is it a double standard when Germany in the naval tree has [more] unfinished ships in its tree than any other nation and are generally stronger in most BR brackets barring 8.0+?

They have overall the best light cruisers, best heavy cruisers [and] good battleships.

Did I also mention Scharnhorst was LITERALLY UNKILLABLE without a full team focusing it for two+ years?

Russia’s tree is generally pretty arse until the Pr68 and their 7.x bracket ships are mid despite the Pr69s and Pr82 having disgusting good guns.

8.7 is the only time the nation is actually overpowered.

US tree comparatively has good to great destroyers, garbage, over tiered cruisers and battleships that generally suck (because 40 second reload aced main guns and extremely poor deck armor) until 8.3.

IJN tree is a mixture of subpar to mid until 7.3 with the Kongou class and rule the 8.0 bracket with Tosa and Mutsu.

But ‘Germany Suffers’, I guess.

why say this twice. Also once again its at a higher BR. It is literally supposed to be better

What exactly do you mean by this? Do you want a list of 6.0 medium tanks???
Because the panther is kinda the only one with its unique attributes

Oh, and I haven’t even mentioned the top-tier Soviet battleship yet.

I’m sure the Umbrella Company built that somewhere, too—and probably conducted firing tests on it, right?

But that’s not the point; we’re talking about double standards here.

Could you tell me about the tanks that were the counterparts to the Panther F?