The Su-30SM should not have received the Kh-38MT

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
68

Dude, all of these posts read bad.
If you don’t want missiles intercepted by SPAA [which more SPAA are coming], then you need to develop tactics that lower that chance if it’s happening to you. Higher altitudes, firing on topics away from SPAA, distracting SPAA, etc.

I used AGM-65D over 100 times, and G around 20 times; they’ve been nerfed since the last time I used them in random battles, but before that they were hilariously strong.
I didn’t fire at SPAA because they’re not going to win the enemy team the match, so I fired at tanks in the middle of the battlefield. The parallax between them and the SPAA in spawn made it difficult enough to not intercept them, and I didn’t fire on a Merkava Mk4M or Black Night, so they weren’t intercepted by APS either.

@TrudeBarkhorn508
The KH-38 has the same IR seeker as the AGM-65. As for HEAT warheads, they’re not the best which is why people have been using Gripens and Harriers with AGM-65Gs more often.
Hammers for France, which France has on two separately classed airframes. Soviets catching up to NATO in CAS capabilities doesn’t mean anything other than CAS is OP.
And people have argued that Brimstones even in their current artificially nerfed state are more powerful than these IR AGMs.

So yeah, I don’t know why you and others are claiming that I am wrong for calling KH-38 and all CAS in general OP.

Most SPAA lack missiles with maneuverability.
I can’t remember which between VT-1 and TOR-M1’s missile is the most maneuverable, and I haven’t heard much about ADATS in a while.

So yeah, in conclusion:
CAS is OP, no one here has been able to disprove this claim I made.
Better SPAA is required.

And I really don’t understand why people would argue against these.

The Hammers, KH-38s, and PGM_3s become far less threatening when Gaijin adds 10+ new SPAA with the ~18km class of maneuverable missiles.

IF and when they give those AGMs separate IR seekers, I’ll have a new criticism.

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69

Nah, I’ve been intercepting Maverics coming for my allies. In a flarakrad (that should tell you how easy it is). They’re just floating there, like some kind of retarded baloons. And I don’t remember, can any plane carry 6x AGM-65G? I’ve seen only HEAT variants using the triple rails. Have you noticed that he’s launching maverics at 4km range? He’s flying there uninterrupted. That’s their fault for not having any SPAA up, hence the punishment. While Su-34, Su-39 (or whatever of those trashcans can carry KH-38) can be more effective by launching all of it’s missiles right upon spawning. In order to prevent a successfull Maveric salvo - I just need to be present in the air. To do the same with Su-34, for example, I need to spawncamp it. Yes, everyone needs new SPAA (without including russia), yet the only spaa capable of stopping their team from being obliterated by kh-38 slingers is playing on their side.

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70

@AlvisWisla never forgets to entertain us with his rage baits 🤡

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71

i am not defending CAS i’m saying is nonse to compare a much better missile that can get 6 kills in 10 seconds after spawning, while the other has to be careful with the Pansir. So no, the CAS is not generally OP, the Russian CAS is much more OP than other nations and then you throw a little M1 “Click Bait” and that’s it

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72

@Navy_Phantom coming in to defend CAS and imply/say that CAS is fine instead of admitting CAS is OP, while accusing the “CAS OP” critics/community are all just baiting him.

@ShOt_MaCkEr
Good to see VT-1s performing decently, they are more maneuverable than the Pantsir’s missile after all.

You have to remember all my posts here are to justify new SPAA coming to WT, and more hardkill APS tanks being added.
Nothing more.

So it’s weird seeing posts that are yelling at me for just stating facts that CAS is OP irrelevant of tech tree and options are needed to defeat the weapons carriers themselves.

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73

I would to see the timeline graph, but yea, At the same time you get 1)Less attempts 2)Far ore skill required for tracking/acquisition 3)Less range 4)Inability to track more than 1 target 4)You’re just defenceless in close range.
You’re always partially right. That, however, doesn’t validate your whole point. I wouldn’t have any problem with this addition if I had means to play against it. What I’m and a lot of guys here are trying to do is to save GRB from being unplayable for the next couple of months (or more).

74

Top ground has been “unplayable” since 2022, one more OP CAS won’t change that. You can see that as a good thing or bad thing, either way an Su-30SM is more of the same that’ll happen to a team, cause most players aren’t part of the 1%ers that can intercept munitions on parallax, and yes you and I are two of the people that can.

I had to learn for information knowledge, and I learned in 2023.
To this day you and I have a rare skill set, and we can’t forget that it is rare until it’s not.

The OP CAS that videos were made of, constantly get mult-kill instances across ten-thousands of matches every day, so on and so forth:

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Honorable mention since some Typhoon players are claiming Typhoon’s the best CAS in game:

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75

You only care about yourself and don’t think about the impact of 12 powerful KH-38MT on other players. "Ah, yes, I’m sophisticated enough that the KH-38MT won’t kill me. But the others don’t matter. "That’s how I see it.

76

The final answer to this question is that “the Su-30SM does not have any realistic justification for carrying such FnF missiles as the KH-38MT”.

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@来如雷霆收震怒_罢如江海凝清光
Things I never said for $100,000.

My statement was “War Thunder needs new SPAA that can take on these 12+ OP CAS platforms.”

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78

Once again, I must reiterate the following points:

  1. The Su-30SM does not have any real-world evidence that it can carry the KH-38MT.

  2. Russia will have the strongest ground forces and the strongest CAS in the next version, and at the same time the top CAS of some countries is weaker than you can imagine (China has only 2 KH-29s, Sweden has only 4 AGM-65s)

  3. At the same time, when Russia obtained 12 rounds of KH-38MT, the only SPAA that could be effectively intercepted, Panstir, was also in Russia. That is, the strongest spear and the strongest shield are Russian.

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79

Until the era of a stronger SPAA, so many OP missiles should not be joined. And the inclusion of these KH-38MT for the Su-30SM is completely unfounded.

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80

It’s 950SP every spawn…

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81

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true or false?

82

I’d say that it’s a multi position scale with AGMs on separate cups on one side, and SPAA on the other.
And IR seekers being identical, the scale will lean toward AGM-65s/Hammer/KH-38 relatively evenly.
IF and when Gaijin expands the 20km game limit, AND separates the IR seekers to their own stats, my statements will change.

I’ve stated previously [tho likely not to you] if we get 20km SPAA, the 20km game limit is fixed, and we get 25+km range IR seekers, that those IR AGMs will be more powerful than all existing AGMs at this time.

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83

Then you missed the point on what that scale represents. Is the agm-65 equal to the KH38, in terms of effectiveness?

No. I have yet to see any CC or any honest person suggest that the agm-65 come anywhere near the the KH38’s effectiveness. Anyone who says otherwise is being dishonest or rage baiting.

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84

I think you are understating the value/impact that IOG has.

AGM-65 can be defeated using smoke fairly easily. If you see something like an F-16 firing off AGM-65s, pop smoke and you are safe. Their relatively low speed also gives you way more time to notice and react to the threat.

KH-38s and AASMs have the IOG meaning you need to take far more steps to defend, including moving from your previous direction and if you were already in motion changing direction ontop of smoking. Ideally you want to find some cover. KH-38s are blisteringly fast and give almost no meaningful time to react to the threat.

To date, the “justification” for such effective AGMs has been the “poor” performance of the launch platforms, this was the case with the SU-25SM3 but barely with the SU-34. Su-30SM has 0 limitations and such the difference in performance is rather deeply felt.

Combine with the fact that the only nation with any truely meaningful SPAA is the soviets with the Pantsir, them also having the best AGMs and often widely considered the best Helis is an annoying combo.

Finally, Gaijin full on removed any semblence of FnF from the Brimstones “because they would be too good” but the KH-38s retained their IOG despite how strong it is and almost every argument they used for the Brimstones could easily be applied to the KH-38 and too a lesser degree any other AGM with IOG. Its just… frustrating, this double standard.

Some form of Mitigation is certainly needed to help level the playing field. My prefered method is the removal of IOG from all AGMs for the exact same reason MMW has been denied for the Brimstone and returned at the same time as the introduction of MMW.

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85

I mean, I always fail to notice an AGM in the air cause no warnings.
I just play in a manner that reduces the chances of being spotted from the air.

The 2 times KH-38s were launched at me, one was on Carpathians in my favorite spot I camp at, and the other I was in my Black Night and Iron Fist destroyed the KH-38 before it got close enough.

At some point I’ll need to test with Trophy.

86

okay 12 KH 38 fnf
Gaijin “totally fine”
but Brimstone FnF
“iT tOo aDvaNcE fOr ThE gAme”
hypocrite double standard at its finest
at this point mmW brimstone is justify
but no Russian is the only one who should be able to wipe out entire team of ground force in one run at this point

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87

just to correct this…
idk why some ppl keep saying 12, the maximum you can carry is 6 kh38mt on the su30sm

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